Conversation

Notices

1. laurelrusswurm (laurelrusswurm@s.russwurm.org)'s status on Wednesday, 07-Jan-2015 17:59:58 UTC laurelrusswurm

   • sazius on Mayfirst
   • simsa0
   @sazius @simsa0 A badly functioning web interface and user experience means potential users don’t stay. Tons of people who ought to have been active on the old Identi.ca (like @doctorow @ioerror, probably @aaronsw) signed up in the start but then went back to twitter, not just because it had more users, but because it worked.

   Tech people find beta testing alpha and beta versions fun, but that is certainly not true for most people, and it takes time. Once most people try out something that doesn’t work well, they don’t come back, even when the bells and whistles are finally in place. There was a time when StatusNet software was far and away better than Twitter… not only with groups but wonderful threaded conversations, but it was too late to entice users back, and then @evan downgraded the conversation capacity just before pulling the plug.

   The reason Identica is the last SM I go to these days is because it makes conversations difficult or impossible. It is a place to announce things, but nothing more. And I think that was by choice.
   Why bother trying to federate something that doesn’t want to be federated?

   • laurelrusswurm (laurelrusswurm@s.russwurm.org)'s status on Wednesday, 07-Jan-2015 18:53:44 UTC laurelrusswurm

     • VegOs ✔♋
     @vegos Alpha and beta testing is above my skill level… I joined the original identica late in the game when it did work well.
   • simsa0 (simsa0@micro.fragdev.com)'s status on Wednesday, 07-Jan-2015 18:55:27 UTC simsa0

     in reply to
     I still miss the hierarchical tread-display I was accustomed to on old identica. It was the main reason I stayed there; only later did I add twitter to the serviceses I use.
     
     But I think the main problem of both, twitter and its alternatives, is that they can’t display conversations clearly and comfortably. If both areas share the same disadvantage, then why use something else than twitter (which indeed for many has advantages over its alternatives)?
     
     I guess beside federation a new way of presenting / displaying conversations would be the feature that would convince many to use twitter-alternatives.
     
     If a conversation-thread could be created that orientates itself a bit toward the simultaneity of posting possible in IRC or etherpad, that would be a start, IMO.
     laurelrusswurm repeated this.
   • laurelrusswurm (laurelrusswurm@s.russwurm.org)'s status on Wednesday, 07-Jan-2015 19:01:59 UTC laurelrusswurm

     • VegOs ✔♋
     @vegos I want free software and hardware to access free culture while protecting our liberty and privacy (because they are human needs)
   • laurelrusswurm (laurelrusswurm@s.russwurm.org)'s status on Wednesday, 07-Jan-2015 19:05:00 UTC laurelrusswurm

     • VegOs ✔♋
     @vegos The reason I understand what motivates non-technical people is because I am one of them :)
   • laurelrusswurm (laurelrusswurm@s.russwurm.org)'s status on Wednesday, 07-Jan-2015 19:16:28 UTC laurelrusswurm

     • Temporary Marjolein
     • simsa0
     @simsa0 You can set your account to /settings/oldschool in StatusNet (not sure if this is true in GNUsocial also) ... @evan gave us back our hierarchical tree conversations after people like @mk and I argued long & hard for it … it does not seem to work quite as well as I remember, but of course that could just be the rosy glow of memory filter.

     It might only include people you follow in the Fediverse (but I am not certain) http://s.russwurm.org/attachment/28844

   • Paul Pritchard (expatpaul@quitter.se)'s status on Wednesday, 07-Jan-2015 19:20:57 UTC Paul Pritchard

     in reply to
     @laurelrusswurm I'm not sure that someone with her own instance can claim to be entirely nontechnical ;-)
   • laurelrusswurm (laurelrusswurm@s.russwurm.org)'s status on Wednesday, 07-Jan-2015 19:21:06 UTC laurelrusswurm

     • VegOs ✔♋
     @vegos It looks interesting but way over my head; my computer guy might like it (and if so would tell me when it gets to my skill level)
   • laurelrusswurm (laurelrusswurm@s.russwurm.org)'s status on Wednesday, 07-Jan-2015 19:42:06 UTC laurelrusswurm

     • simsa0
     • gnusocial
     @simsa0 So it is not available in !GNUsocial, which means replacing #StatusNet with GNUsocial would be a downgrade… #disappointing
   • laurelrusswurm (laurelrusswurm@s.russwurm.org)'s status on Wednesday, 07-Jan-2015 19:57:09 UTC laurelrusswurm

     • simsa0
     @simsa0 My instance is running the StatusNet software from before the merger… I was waiting for bugs to be shaken out before upgrading to GNUsocial software.
   • laurelrusswurm (laurelrusswurm@s.russwurm.org)'s status on Wednesday, 07-Jan-2015 19:58:49 UTC laurelrusswurm

     in reply to

     • Paul Pritchard
     @expatpaul I have help (translation: I don’t actually do the technical stuff myself :)
   • Paul Pritchard (expatpaul@quitter.se)'s status on Wednesday, 07-Jan-2015 20:07:44 UTC Paul Pritchard

     in reply to
     @laurelrusswurm That sounds like a smart move ;-)
   • laurelrusswurm (laurelrusswurm@s.russwurm.org)'s status on Wednesday, 07-Jan-2015 20:30:24 UTC laurelrusswurm

     in reply to

     • Paul Pritchard
     yup :)
   • sazius on Mayfirst (saziusmayfirst@social.mayfirst.org)'s status on Wednesday, 07-Jan-2015 21:08:58 UTC sazius on Mayfirst

     in reply to
     @laurelrusswurm I think we need to focus on both aspects: make it easy to use, but also gather many users. The idea behind the "Federation" initiative was to join the current efforts so we can combine our users, and build on the network effect.
   • sazius on Mayfirst (saziusmayfirst@social.mayfirst.org)'s status on Wednesday, 07-Jan-2015 21:10:27 UTC sazius on Mayfirst

     in reply to
     I don't think people like @doctorow and @ioerror left because of the user interface, but rather because of the large network on Twitter. I'm pretty sure they didn't leave because of lack of threaded conversations :-)
   • laurelrusswurm (laurelrusswurm@s.russwurm.org)'s status on Wednesday, 07-Jan-2015 21:13:20 UTC laurelrusswurm

     in reply to

     • sazius on Mayfirst
     @sazius Yes, but gathering many non-tech savvy users before it is reasonably easy to use is inadvisable.
   • sazius on Mayfirst (saziusmayfirst@social.mayfirst.org)'s status on Wednesday, 07-Jan-2015 21:19:31 UTC sazius on Mayfirst

     in reply to
     @laurelrusswurm I think step 1. is to join together all the current users of GNU Social, Diaspora, etc by federating across a common protocol. So mostly tech savvy users.
   • laurelrusswurm (laurelrusswurm@s.russwurm.org)'s status on Wednesday, 07-Jan-2015 21:28:45 UTC laurelrusswurm

     in reply to

     • sazius on Mayfirst
     @sazius Agreed… but the way to get a large network of ordinary people is to have a user friendly interface.

     When those guys signed up (Stephen Fry, too) if it had been user friendly they would most likely have driven traffic to the fediverse. But they are not going to recommend a social network that makes their fans feel incompetent.

     There were a few of my online political friends considering moving to identica specifically because of the threaded conversations (being able to show people an aggregated conversation that gets an argument across is a biggie) ... but then @evan downgraded it to eliminate hierarchal threads feature. That’s when I stopped even talking about it anywhere else, because I am not going to send people to social media that doesn’t do what they need. (Also it was becoming clear, even to me, that the identiverse was on its last legs.)

   • laurelrusswurm (laurelrusswurm@s.russwurm.org)'s status on Wednesday, 07-Jan-2015 21:30:44 UTC laurelrusswurm

     in reply to

     • sazius on Mayfirst
     @sazius Yes, that would be good. I thought that was in the works, though.
   • laurelrusswurm (laurelrusswurm@s.russwurm.org)'s status on Wednesday, 07-Jan-2015 21:36:44 UTC laurelrusswurm

     in reply to

     • sazius on Mayfirst
     @sazius The code for GNUsocial the hierarchical conversation trees exists ... how hard can it be to put it in as a default?
   • sazius on Mayfirst (saziusmayfirst@social.mayfirst.org)'s status on Wednesday, 07-Jan-2015 21:40:13 UTC sazius on Mayfirst

     in reply to
     @laurelrusswurm While I miss the threaded conversations too, I have a real hard time seeing that as the big show stopper. I think it's mostly network effect. Sadly we still don't have our systems sorted out now that even ordinary people are becoming more aware of privacy/spying etc, and may be in the "market" for a new social network.
   • sazius on Mayfirst (saziusmayfirst@social.mayfirst.org)'s status on Wednesday, 07-Jan-2015 21:42:00 UTC sazius on Mayfirst

     in reply to
     @laurelrusswurm But I definitely agree about the user friendly interface. This is why I still don't actively try to get my "non-geeky" friends to move over here. We still have work to do before that.
   • nds (nds@micro.fragdev.com)'s status on Wednesday, 07-Jan-2015 21:42:02 UTC nds

     in reply to

     • sazius on Mayfirst
     I think you’ve got it. Everyone is already on twitter, and the partitioning of the fediverse by converting identi.ca to pump.io certainly did not help things.
     laurelrusswurm repeated this.
   • laurelrusswurm (laurelrusswurm@s.russwurm.org)'s status on Wednesday, 07-Jan-2015 21:51:32 UTC laurelrusswurm

     in reply to

     • sazius on Mayfirst
     @sazius Yes, that’s why people on facebook have asked me about alternatives. For me threaded conversations are a show stopper because I know its possible and I have them now. Why would I give it up?

     But for other people ... new users … HAVING hierarchical threaded conversations would be a draw ... anyone who has tried to follow an even slightly complicated twitter conversation would be very impressed with this feature.

   • sazius on Mayfirst (saziusmayfirst@social.mayfirst.org)'s status on Wednesday, 07-Jan-2015 21:53:06 UTC sazius on Mayfirst

     in reply to
     @laurelrusswurm No idea, you need to ask the GNU social developers that :-)
   • sazius on Mayfirst (saziusmayfirst@social.mayfirst.org)'s status on Wednesday, 07-Jan-2015 21:57:21 UTC sazius on Mayfirst

     in reply to
     @laurelrusswurm It could be, but I think awareness of privacy and the users having control of their own data are our best arguments in the long run.
   • @mcscx@quitter.se (mcscx@quitter.se)'s status on Wednesday, 07-Jan-2015 22:01:57 UTC @mcscx@quitter.se

     in reply to

     • MMN-o ✅⃠
     @laurelrusswurm The code for oldschool/hierarchical-thread has been moved to a plugin by @mmn
   • @mcscx@quitter.se (mcscx@quitter.se)'s status on Wednesday, 07-Jan-2015 22:06:10 UTC @mcscx@quitter.se

     in reply to

     • @mcscx@quitter.se
     • Erkan Yılmaz
     @laurelrusswurm …I heard #hierarchicaI is broken. But I have seen a screenshot by @erkan that didnt look too bad,mostly formatting issue?
   • Erkan Yılmaz (erkan@fediverse.com)'s status on Wednesday, 07-Jan-2015 23:19:46 UTC Erkan Yılmaz

     in reply to

     • @mcscx@quitter.se
     • sn
     it's one of the reasons why I still love my old !sn instance (nice conversation threads) cc @laurelrusswurm
     laurelrusswurm repeated this.
   • laurelrusswurm (laurelrusswurm@s.russwurm.org)'s status on Thursday, 08-Jan-2015 05:50:44 UTC laurelrusswurm

     in reply to

     • sazius on Mayfirst
     • simsa0
     • Privacy
     @sazius I agree with @simsa0 !privacy is not a biggie for most. After years of dire warnings, then Snowden, the world still turns.
   • laurelrusswurm (laurelrusswurm@s.russwurm.org)'s status on Thursday, 08-Jan-2015 05:54:21 UTC laurelrusswurm

     in reply to

     • @mcscx@quitter.se
     @mcscx I don’t understand the rationale; my #hierarchical works just fine: http://s.russwurm.org/conversation/211553#notice-367842
   • laurelrusswurm (laurelrusswurm@s.russwurm.org)'s status on Thursday, 08-Jan-2015 06:01:14 UTC laurelrusswurm

     • VegOs ✔♋
     @vegos #Ubuntu Studio on my desktop, Linux #mint on netbook (which I will change to #! when my new laptop comes with Ubuntu arrives)
   • laurelrusswurm (laurelrusswurm@s.russwurm.org)'s status on Thursday, 08-Jan-2015 06:26:05 UTC laurelrusswurm

     • hosh
     @hosh The Sol :) https://store.solaptop.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Sol_Front_Macaw_w-480×319.png
   • laurelrusswurm (laurelrusswurm@s.russwurm.org)'s status on Thursday, 08-Jan-2015 06:30:07 UTC laurelrusswurm

     • hosh
     @hosh The hierachical conversations are only in old StatusNet, not GNUsocial (except perhaps as a plug-in)
   • laurelrusswurm (laurelrusswurm@s.russwurm.org)'s status on Thursday, 08-Jan-2015 06:37:27 UTC laurelrusswurm

     • hosh
     @hosh And that is the very reason why hierarchical conversations make the social media a much better user experience.
   • laurelrusswurm (laurelrusswurm@s.russwurm.org)'s status on Thursday, 08-Jan-2015 06:43:35 UTC laurelrusswurm

     • hosh
     @hosh Okay, yes… mine is happily one of those antiquated systems :) Blobs and all, Ubuntu is better than Windows.
   • Erkan Yılmaz (erkan@fediverse.com)'s status on Thursday, 08-Jan-2015 11:47:44 UTC Erkan Yılmaz

     • @mcscx@quitter.se
     • hosh
     • gnusocial
     • gs
     Actually I find in the new !gs !gnusocial also this inconvenient for me: before, there was this "in context" (1) appearing where i could see easily, if the msg is new or from an existing thread. Now I am basically forced to click on it to assess that. (1) e.g. "about 12 hours ago from indy.im (in context)" cc @mcscx @laurelrusswurm
   • MMN-o ✅⃠ (mmn@social.umeahackerspace.se)'s status on Thursday, 08-Jan-2015 12:31:17 UTC MMN-o ✅⃠

     in reply to

     • Erkan Yılmaz
     @erkan So you'd like an indication for threads with >1 posts? That should be a quick fix.
   • Erkan Yılmaz (erkan@fediverse.com)'s status on Thursday, 08-Jan-2015 12:38:18 UTC Erkan Yılmaz

     in reply to

     • MMN-o ✅⃠
     Mikael, that would be nice.
   • MMN-o ✅⃠ (mmn@social.umeahackerspace.se)'s status on Thursday, 08-Jan-2015 14:00:47 UTC MMN-o ✅⃠

     • Erkan Yılmaz
     • tuttle
     • gnusocial
     In (at least nightly) !gnusocial the "about x hours ago" link goes directly to the conversation. To the single notice, there is instead a "[permalink]". @erkan's problem is that both are always visible - so there's no way to tell if there actually _are_ more posts in the conversation.
   • laurelrusswurm (laurelrusswurm@s.russwurm.org)'s status on Thursday, 08-Jan-2015 16:36:45 UTC laurelrusswurm

     in reply to

     • MMN-o ✅⃠
     @mmn Why is it an “about x hours ago” link ? Wouldn’t a time stamp in my time (or the poster’s time) be better? Worst: “about a year ago”
   • MMN-o ✅⃠ (mmn@social.umeahackerspace.se)'s status on Thursday, 08-Jan-2015 16:47:33 UTC MMN-o ✅⃠

     in reply to
     Hover your mouse over the link and you'll see the full, absolute and verbose timestamp. ;)
     The problem with adapting timestamps for users are:
     1: timezones (which to show? has the user really configured it? should we really ask the browser which timezone we're in?)
     2: Confusing and verbose. Lots of text. Many numbers. Not very appealing to the average user. Such undoge. Not wow.
   • laurelrusswurm (laurelrusswurm@s.russwurm.org)'s status on Thursday, 08-Jan-2015 16:56:17 UTC laurelrusswurm

     in reply to

     • MMN-o ✅⃠
     @mmn Thank you… I’ve only looked at the link, didn’t realize it was hoverable. Agreed on all points :)
   • MMN-o ✅⃠ (mmn@social.umeahackerspace.se)'s status on Thursday, 08-Jan-2015 17:00:28 UTC MMN-o ✅⃠

     in reply to
     The element even uses the #HTML5 <time/> and is, I believe, properly marked up for #microformats2 ;)
   • laurelrusswurm (laurelrusswurm@s.russwurm.org)'s status on Thursday, 08-Jan-2015 17:09:23 UTC laurelrusswurm

     in reply to

     • MMN-o ✅⃠
     @mmn microformats Although I can muddle along in xhtml, HTML5 & microformats are over my head :)
   • Temporary Marjolein (mk@oracle.skilledtests.com)'s status on Thursday, 08-Jan-2015 18:29:23 UTC Temporary Marjolein

     in reply to

     • MMN-o ✅⃠
     @laurelrusswurm @mmn I absolutely hate that vague nonsense, and having to wave your mouse about to find out when a dent was *actually* posted. I want to be able to just *read* and know when what was posted without having to use more than a pgup/pgup/arrow key occasionally.
   • MMN-o ✅⃠ (mmn@social.umeahackerspace.se)'s status on Thursday, 08-Jan-2015 19:46:11 UTC MMN-o ✅⃠

     in reply to

     • Temporary Marjolein
     • gnusocial
     Aye. But that's pretty unusual. Also, given that you can much more quickly get a sense of how recent a post is - or how heated a discussion is (rather than parsing numbers in your head) there is a clear usability improvement by presenting relative timestamps as opposed to absolute timestamps.
     But you're of course free to modify and run your own implementation of !gnusocial if the timestamp issue is such a great source of everyday hatred. :)
   • MMN-o ✅⃠ (mmn@social.umeahackerspace.se)'s status on Thursday, 08-Jan-2015 19:47:32 UTC MMN-o ✅⃠

     in reply to

     • MMN-o ✅⃠
     • gnusocial
     Also, as mentioned, metadata is there. So there's no need to actually run a modified !gnusocial codebase. Just implementing a #GreaseMonkey script or something to replace the relative timestamp with the absolute one should be trivial.
   • sazius on Mayfirst (saziusmayfirst@social.mayfirst.org)'s status on Thursday, 08-Jan-2015 20:02:52 UTC sazius on Mayfirst

     in reply to

     • simsa0
     @simsa0 @laurelrusswurm I agree we won't get the big mass of people, but I think there are still many people who are concerned about privacy that could be swayed. These are now turned away by incompatible and hard to use systems.
   • @mcscx@quitter.se (mcscx@quitter.se)'s status on Thursday, 08-Jan-2015 20:44:54 UTC @mcscx@quitter.se

     in reply to
     @laurelrusswurm I believe #hierarchical still works at your SN site - but ppl who are not logged in just see the flat view w/your link ;-)
   • Temporary Marjolein (mk@oracle.skilledtests.com)'s status on Friday, 09-Jan-2015 10:51:25 UTC Temporary Marjolein

     in reply to

     • MMN-o ✅⃠
     @mmn not to me - there is no 'clear sense' of time with those 'relative' indications at all - a vague indication only gives a vague sense. And having to wave you mouse about to find out the actual time stamp means a big lack of usability to me. I always configure systems or file managers to show me actual timestamps, but in StatusNet/GNUsocial I cannot do that. That is a problem. A big one.
   • MMN-o ✅⃠ (mmn@social.umeahackerspace.se)'s status on Friday, 09-Jan-2015 11:49:09 UTC MMN-o ✅⃠

     in reply to

     • Temporary Marjolein
     @mk Just do it with some #GreaseMonkey scripting. All the data is there in the <time> tag. .)
   • Temporary Marjolein (mk@oracle.skilledtests.com)'s status on Friday, 09-Jan-2015 15:33:11 UTC Temporary Marjolein

     in reply to

     • MMN-o ✅⃠
     @mmn that's a good idea. But I maintain it should simply be user's choice, not individual user's necessary fiddling
   • laurelrusswurm (laurelrusswurm@s.russwurm.org)'s status on Friday, 09-Jan-2015 16:23:55 UTC laurelrusswurm

     • hosh
     @hosh If a writer can’t make up a word she needs, who can? (Darn… I just went and looked; apparently others have made it up before me :)
   • laurelrusswurm (laurelrusswurm@s.russwurm.org)'s status on Friday, 09-Jan-2015 16:31:49 UTC laurelrusswurm

     in reply to

     • sazius on Mayfirst
     @sazius I’m not saying its not an issue, I’m saying both are. (And with the hierarchical tree thing it isn’t that it needs to be invented. It used to exist as the default. And what came with it was microblog posts in chronological order.

     Personally, I think @evan changed those good things to make it more like facebook, g+ & twitter. But I don’t want to see the same post over and over because its “popular” I want to be able to go back and find stuff if I want to. Also, if your social media software works exactly as the others, why on earth would anyone switch to a start up community?

   • laurelrusswurm (laurelrusswurm@s.russwurm.org)'s status on Friday, 09-Jan-2015 16:38:05 UTC laurelrusswurm

     in reply to

     • @mcscx@quitter.se
     @mcscx That is truly annoying. In the old days I gave links to #hierarchical convos… Twitter users who were blown away by it
   • laurelrusswurm (laurelrusswurm@s.russwurm.org)'s status on Friday, 09-Jan-2015 16:39:21 UTC laurelrusswurm

     in reply to
     The idea of having to screen cap and stitch together #hierarchical convos to be able to share sucks #FAIL
   • sazius on Mayfirst (saziusmayfirst@social.mayfirst.org)'s status on Friday, 09-Jan-2015 18:37:06 UTC sazius on Mayfirst

     in reply to
     @laurelrusswurm )
   • sazius on Mayfirst (saziusmayfirst@social.mayfirst.org)'s status on Friday, 09-Jan-2015 18:37:40 UTC sazius on Mayfirst

     in reply to
     @laurelrusswurm (sorry, I just had to close your parenthesis :-)
   • sazius on Mayfirst (saziusmayfirst@social.mayfirst.org)'s status on Friday, 09-Jan-2015 18:43:23 UTC sazius on Mayfirst

     in reply to
     @laurelrusswurm I don't know why Evan changed things as he did. He didn't communicate it very well to the community, which was definitely a mistake. One reason, though, that I picked up on (not sure if that was intended or not) is that hierarchical conversations are quite difficult to represent well on mobile devices.
   • sazius on Mayfirst (saziusmayfirst@social.mayfirst.org)'s status on Friday, 09-Jan-2015 18:45:50 UTC sazius on Mayfirst

     in reply to
     @laurelrusswurm But in the end, I don't use Linux because it has superior features to other operating systems, I use it because it gives me more freedom. (Ultimately I control my own computer, if you choose to use FSF's terminology or not, I think we talk about the same thing.) I don't use GNU social and pump.io because it is technically better either, but because freedom. If people come to use our system because we have better features, then they will switch back as quickly when the next Apple/Facebook/Windows/whatever has better features than we have. That would be very shallow victory.
   • @mcscx@quitter.se (mcscx@quitter.se)'s status on Friday, 09-Jan-2015 18:52:59 UTC @mcscx@quitter.se

     in reply to

     • sazius on Mayfirst
     #Andstatus has awesome hierarchical convo view @sazius …that hierarchical convos are quite difficult to represent well on mobile devices
   • sazius on Mayfirst (saziusmayfirst@social.mayfirst.org)'s status on Friday, 09-Jan-2015 18:57:56 UTC sazius on Mayfirst

     in reply to

     • @mcscx@quitter.se
     @mcscx OK, I have to recheck that one, I don't remember how it looks like right now. But I'm just saying that was the motivation (or my interpretation of it), not that I agree, or that things couldn't change with some UI innovations.
   • sazius on Mayfirst (saziusmayfirst@social.mayfirst.org)'s status on Friday, 09-Jan-2015 19:04:33 UTC sazius on Mayfirst

     in reply to
     @laurelrusswurm And I actually like the "new StatusNet" style. When I get back from work, I don't want to scroll through 100 pages of individual replies to various discussions without any context. Instead I just look at the first page and I can see the most active discussions there.
   • kat (boneidol@indy.im)'s status on Friday, 09-Jan-2015 19:13:09 UTC kat

     in reply to

     • sazius on Mayfirst
     @sazius @laurelrusswurm I partly agree. Ive found that freedom based solutions are better over the mid to long term.
   • kat (boneidol@indy.im)'s status on Friday, 09-Jan-2015 19:18:03 UTC kat

     in reply to

     • kat
     • sazius on Mayfirst
     @boneidol @sazius @laurelrusswurm "those that purchase on price alone can be manipulated by those who have a longer term viewpoint"
   • @mcscx@quitter.se (mcscx@quitter.se)'s status on Friday, 09-Jan-2015 19:22:28 UTC @mcscx@quitter.se

     in reply to

     • sazius on Mayfirst
     @sazius here's a screenshot of #andstatus's hierarchical conversation view https://quitter.se/notice/2263723
   • sazius on Mayfirst (saziusmayfirst@social.mayfirst.org)'s status on Friday, 09-Jan-2015 20:57:36 UTC sazius on Mayfirst

     in reply to

     • @mcscx@quitter.se
     @mcscx Even in that picture you can easily see how it can become a problem in larger conversation, when a much later post replies to something higher up, and you have trace the very thin line upwards. And that conversation only has five levels.
   • laurelrusswurm (laurelrusswurm@s.russwurm.org)'s status on Friday, 09-Jan-2015 22:24:32 UTC laurelrusswurm

     in reply to

     • sazius on Mayfirst
     @sazius But if you can’t understand someone’s reply because it seem to be a non sequitur, you can follow the lines and figure it out. That is important to me.
   • laurelrusswurm (laurelrusswurm@s.russwurm.org)'s status on Friday, 09-Jan-2015 22:37:26 UTC laurelrusswurm

     • simsa0
     @simsa0 I think part of “owning Your Data” is not having to give personal info to Facebook or Twitter in order to have an account (once you do they are always trying to suck out more) ... facebook wouldn’t let me log in with my netbook at my inlaws without giving them my cell number (I didn’t)
     And it is also about not having Twitter or Facebook or whichever platform control your published data… they can keep it when you go, just because you set it private doesn’t mean the pedophile in the server room can’t peep at the photos of your baby in the bath you sent to granny)
   • @mcscx@quitter.se (mcscx@quitter.se)'s status on Friday, 09-Jan-2015 23:03:03 UTC @mcscx@quitter.se

     in reply to

     • sazius on Mayfirst
     @sazius yes, but that's still better than chronological, imho
   • laurelrusswurm (laurelrusswurm@s.russwurm.org)'s status on Monday, 12-Jan-2015 15:35:48 UTC laurelrusswurm

     • simsa0
     @simsa0 Twitter also knows your IP address, location, who u communicate with, what you look at & can censor/change the TOS/lock you out.
   • laurelrusswurm (laurelrusswurm@s.russwurm.org)'s status on Wednesday, 14-Jan-2015 04:15:25 UTC laurelrusswurm

     • caro
     @caro TOS means Terms Of Service which people have to agree to before using the site. Even if people read them, and most people don’t, and even if they understand all the legality, the essential problem is that they can be changed without notice, and users continued use of the site is presumed to be agreement to the new terms.
   • laurelrusswurm (laurelrusswurm@s.russwurm.org)'s status on Wednesday, 14-Jan-2015 04:45:22 UTC laurelrusswurm

     • simsa0
     @simsa0 your IP address is data that can be used to identify you. EFF postulates 3 good pieces of data can expose an identity.

     I don’t know what your relationship to your admin is; if it’s your significant other, your brother or your mother or your kid or your best friend, you probably can. If its a faceless stranger, maybe. As @ mcscx explains: http://quitter.se/notice/3185850

     Privacy is something human beings need, which is why it is a human right.

     *Article 12.

     No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.

     ~ The Universal Declaration of Human Rights”*

   • laurelrusswurm (laurelrusswurm@s.russwurm.org)'s status on Wednesday, 14-Jan-2015 04:51:06 UTC laurelrusswurm

     • simsa0
     • Privacy
     @simsa0 “ !Privacy is a fundamental human right recognized in the UN Declaration of Human Rights, the International Convenant on Civil and Political Rights and in many other international and regional treaties. Privacy underpins human dignity and other key values such as freedom of association and freedom of speech. It has become one of the most important human rights issues of the modern age. The publication of this report reflects the growing importance, diversity and complexity of this fundamental right.

     ~ An International Survey of Privacy Laws and Practice http://gilc.org/privacy/survey/intro.html#right”

     When I began using social media (circa 2009) you could not go back all the way to the beginning of your twitter stream. Which is not to say your tweets were gone, just that you had no access to them. Twitter, on the other hand, could access them, and was reportedly archiving them at the Library of Congress. Which meant that they could be used against you ! (Say you had used some hot button word frivolously, innocently, and suddenly you find yourself in court and unable to defend against.

   • laurelrusswurm (laurelrusswurm@s.russwurm.org)'s status on Wednesday, 14-Jan-2015 04:54:22 UTC laurelrusswurm

     • simsa0
     • Privacy
     @simsa0

     “ !Privacy is a fundamental human right recognized in the UN Declaration of Human Rights, the International Convenant on Civil and Political Rights and in many other international and regional treaties. Privacy underpins human dignity and other key values such as freedom of association and freedom of speech. It has become one of the most important human rights issues of the modern age. The publication of this report reflects the growing importance, diversity and complexity of this fundamental right.

     ~ An International Survey of Privacy Laws and Practice http://gilc.org/privacy/survey/intro.html#right”

     When I began using social media (around 2009) you could not go back all the way to the beginning of your twitter stream. Which is not to say your tweets were gone, just that you had no access to them. Twitter, on the other hand, could access them, and was reportedly archiving them at the Library of Congress. Which meant that they could be used against you ! (Say you had used some hot button word frivolously, you wind up in court unable to defend b/c you lack access.

   • laurelrusswurm (laurelrusswurm@s.russwurm.org)'s status on Wednesday, 14-Jan-2015 05:11:43 UTC laurelrusswurm

     • simsa0
     • Privacy
     @simsa0 If only the people who are likely to be targeted by a regime or by the mafia & whosr health depends on protecting !privacy use encryption or TOR etc. it’s like a big neon sign saying — look at me, I am suspicious.

     Of course I know the data of Free Media are data-mined by big corporation, surveillance, state authorities, but it shouldn’t be because !Privacy matters. If everybody says hey, that’s okay, I haven’t done anything wrong… then what?

     You say, “I am not that important that that would matter much. “ but here you are using a pseudonym, so clearly there is some issue. What do we lose if we waive our rights to privacy? One of the reasons privacy is important is because it is an important part of security. Even if we are not important, we lock the door at night so we can sleep securely. Privacy in the form of anonymity allows people to speak freely. We act differently when we know we are under surveillance. It is inhibiting.

   • laurelrusswurm (laurelrusswurm@s.russwurm.org)'s status on Wednesday, 14-Jan-2015 17:41:44 UTC laurelrusswurm

     • simsa0
     • Privacy
     • Surveillance
     @simsa0 Your identity is part of your own data
     .
     Everybody needs privacy, particularly since Mr. Snowden informed us the Internet is under !surveillance & recorded 24/7. You don’t have to be a target today; they can target you any time with a simple search
     .
     Digital !Privacy can be secured, and the first step is encryption. Government has always been more powerful than citizens; capable of breaking down our physical doors. The state has infinite resources; citizens resources are finite. That’s why we fought for (& still need) civil rights, to protect ourselves from government abuse. I grew up in a world where government had to get a search warrant from the autonomous before it could violate my privacy
     .
     Privacy is not so much owning my own data as the ability to control my own data. To decide whether and what to let out of my private domain (my mind, my person, my workspace, my home). I realize I talk online a lot, but I am very conscious of what I put out there, with particular care to not breach the privacy rights of others
     .
     It sure sounds like you want to own your own medical data… just sayin’ :)
   • laurelrusswurm (laurelrusswurm@s.russwurm.org)'s status on Wednesday, 14-Jan-2015 17:48:33 UTC laurelrusswurm

     • simsa0
     • Privacy
     @simsa0 !Privacy matters whether or not we have the power to enforce our control of our own privacy. Just because someone/something (whether government or corporate) is more powerful than we are is no reason to give up what is right.
   • laurelrusswurm (laurelrusswurm@s.russwurm.org)'s status on Wednesday, 14-Jan-2015 17:53:33 UTC laurelrusswurm

     • simsa0
     @simsa0 I am aware the mere fact of encryption makes us targets NOW. That topic is not done, it’s why we need to embrace encryption.
   • Temporary Marjolein (mk@oracle.skilledtests.com)'s status on Wednesday, 14-Jan-2015 17:56:21 UTC Temporary Marjolein

     in reply to
     @laurelrusswurm Yes, I understood that! I just commented on what it looks like :)
   • laurelrusswurm (laurelrusswurm@s.russwurm.org)'s status on Thursday, 15-Jan-2015 06:06:39 UTC laurelrusswurm

     • simsa0
     @simsa0 No, it’s like locking your door.