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1. Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅 (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Tuesday, 01-Feb-2022 04:01:55 UTC Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅
   Are there platform cooperatives that offer general-purpose mailing lists?
   • Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅 (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Tuesday, 01-Feb-2022 04:04:33 UTC Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅

     in reply to
     I saw a coop using groups.io and it looks very slick and featureful and VC-y loss-leader-y. There is no clear information on who is running it.
   • Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅 (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Tuesday, 01-Feb-2022 04:24:15 UTC Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅

     in reply to

     • Sam Whited
     @sam If that is the case it might be harmless to use it, it just looked a little bit too slick and featureful and with too generous a freemium to be an organically growing small business.
     
     I don't want to shame anyone. Nobody should be forced to maintain mail servers and services when they have a mission and I'm asking the above because I don't know the alternatives. At least this is better than Google Groups.
     
     I have a constant latent tiny rage that racket-users@ is on Google Groups.
   • Sam Whited (sam@social.coop)'s status on Tuesday, 01-Feb-2022 04:24:16 UTC Sam Whited

     in reply to

     @clacke (it's pretty bad actually; I just don't know anything else that's not run by one of the big tech companies or specifically geared towards tech-y types; FWIW it's not a VC thing as far as I know, just one person who made a thing and now sells it. More small business than giant company, but I'm not 100% sure)

     Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅 likes this.
   • Dam (damko@fosstodon.org)'s status on Tuesday, 01-Feb-2022 04:24:37 UTC Dam

     in reply to

     @clacke not clear to me. Do you need to send bulk emails?

   • Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅 (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Tuesday, 01-Feb-2022 04:24:37 UTC Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅

     in reply to

     • Dam
     @damko Strictly talking project mailing lists here.
   • Dam (damko@fosstodon.org)'s status on Tuesday, 01-Feb-2022 04:48:24 UTC Dam

     in reply to

     @clacke I still believe I didn't get 100% what you mean but let me throw "mailman software" here, in the hope it can help. Apologies if I'm far.

   • Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅 (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Tuesday, 01-Feb-2022 04:48:24 UTC Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅

     in reply to

     • Dam
     @damko Yeah, mailman and then someone with a trustworthy and sustainable organizational structure who runs the servers, that's basically it.
   • Dam (damko@fosstodon.org)'s status on Tuesday, 01-Feb-2022 05:06:13 UTC Dam

     in reply to

     @clacke I'm stretching my memory. Have a look at autistici.org

     Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅 likes this.
   • Björn Lindström (bkhl@mastodon.sdf.org)'s status on Tuesday, 01-Feb-2022 08:31:43 UTC Björn Lindström

     in reply to

     • Dam

     @clacke @damko HCoop.net has Mailman.

     Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅 likes this.
   • Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅 (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Tuesday, 01-Feb-2022 08:44:27 UTC Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅

     in reply to

     • gofoss
     @don_atoms Thanks, but seems they're winding it down.
     
     They were going to do it already last year, but extended its life because there are so few alternatives, sadly confirming the importance of this thread. Their long-term plan is still to wind it down – I'm guessing maybe they could encourage some Chatons hosts to provide service like they've done with other de-framatized services.
     
     framablog.org/2020/12/15/what-…
   • gofoss (don_atoms@hostux.social)'s status on Tuesday, 01-Feb-2022 08:44:28 UTC gofoss

     in reply to

     @clacke maybe https://framalistes.org/sympa/ ?

   • Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅 (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Tuesday, 01-Feb-2022 08:57:13 UTC Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅

     in reply to

     • Dam
     @damko Thanks! I think I've seen that used by some project from time to time.
     
     Not a cooperative, but still in the spirit of not being an ad giant selling you to any bidder.
   • Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅 (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Tuesday, 01-Feb-2022 09:04:24 UTC Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅

     in reply to

     • Björn Lindström
     • Dam
     > Using custom tools written in SML
     
     That's an unusual and interesting choice. I like it. The mailing list service in particular though runs on good old GNU mailman.
     
     hcoop.net/
     
     @bkhl @damko
   • Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅 (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Tuesday, 01-Feb-2022 09:04:25 UTC Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅

     in reply to

     • Björn Lindström
     • Dam
     @bkhl Interesting, I didn't hear of a 501(c)(12) before.
     Benevolent Life Insurance Associations, Mutual Ditch or Irrigation Companies, Mutual or Cooperative Telephone Companies, and Like OrganizationsCooperative Telephone Companies sounds like an applicable and appropriate archetype for a platform cooperative.
     
     en.wikipedia.org/wiki/501(c)_o…
     
     en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utility_…
   • Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅 (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Tuesday, 01-Feb-2022 09:11:37 UTC Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅

     in reply to
     If we broaden to not-exactly-cooperatives there is riseup.net , which is open to "groups working on liberatory social change", which sound to me like it should include a platform cooperative.
   • Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅 (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Tuesday, 01-Feb-2022 09:15:11 UTC Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅

     in reply to
     If talking about network services in general, but sadly not mailing lists, there is disroot.org/ , which is not a coop, but it is a Dutch charitable foundation that provides ungoogly services.
   • Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅 (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Tuesday, 01-Feb-2022 09:21:10 UTC Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅

     in reply to
     Riseup is an "autonomous collective", not sure what type of legal entity and how membership looks. Looks like as a user you donate rather than join, so they're not a consumer coop. They might be an admin/worker coop-like. Their principles have a lot of overlap with coop principles.
     
     riseup.net/en/about-us/politic…
   • Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅 (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Tuesday, 01-Feb-2022 09:30:13 UTC Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅

     in reply to
     mayfirst.coop/ is a workers-and-consumers coop, organizations welcome as members, which offers mailing list services (GNU mailman).
     
     support.mayfirst.org/wiki/mail…
     
     mayfirst.coop/en/member-benefi…
   • Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅 (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Tuesday, 01-Feb-2022 09:49:43 UTC Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅

     in reply to

     • Jens Finkhäuser 🌻
     @jens Yes they have, that's a plus too.
   • Jens Finkhäuser 🌻 (jens@social.finkhaeuser.de)'s status on Tuesday, 01-Feb-2022 09:49:45 UTC Jens Finkhäuser 🌻

     in reply to

     @clacke They've also been around for a long, long time :)

   • Björn Lindström (bkhl@mastodon.sdf.org)'s status on Tuesday, 01-Feb-2022 09:50:43 UTC Björn Lindström

     in reply to

     @clacke one of the neater things about HCoop, but also sometimes a bit of a hurdle, is that the infrastructure is based on OpenAFS. This is not something you'll notice much if you mainly use it for mail though, it comes into play more if you want to host web applications there.

     Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅 likes this.
   • Björn Lindström (bkhl@mastodon.sdf.org)'s status on Tuesday, 01-Feb-2022 09:50:45 UTC Björn Lindström

     in reply to

     • Dam

     @clacke @damko https://hcoop.net/board/ ← I have a bias. But anyway, if you want to chat about whether it's a good choice for you, you can try us on irc://irc.libera.chat/#hcoop

   • Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅 (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Tuesday, 01-Feb-2022 10:28:10 UTC Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅

     in reply to

     • Björn Lindström
     • Dam
     They don't explicitly offer membership to other coops, but this should include them:
     
     > For partnerships, LLCs, corporations and such, the terms would depend on the intended usage of HCoop. If all you need is one shell with websites and email aliases for your domains, then your business can probably join as a single member on the same terms.
     
     wiki.hcoop.net/ProspectiveMemb…
     
     @bkhl @damko
   • notklaatu (klaatu@mastodon.xyz)'s status on Tuesday, 01-Feb-2022 10:33:11 UTC notklaatu

     in reply to

     @clacke My podcast, Gnu World Order, is sponsored by a co-op in the form of free hosting and amazing support. The co-op provides unlimited mailing lists.

     https://webhosting.coop/web-hosting

     I absolutley absolutely, highly, throughly recommend them.

     Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅 likes this.
   • Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅 (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Tuesday, 01-Feb-2022 10:36:19 UTC Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅

     in reply to

     • notklaatu
     @klaatu Very cool, thanks. Do you know if coops are welcome as members, or only individuals?
   • Björn Lindström (bkhl@mastodon.sdf.org)'s status on Tuesday, 01-Feb-2022 10:57:19 UTC Björn Lindström

     in reply to

     @clacke IIRC we already have one or two members like that, though they've just had someone become a member as an individual and then set up their webpage etc. like that. I'm sure we can help if they would need to transfer those accounts to someone else.

     One of our board members is talking to an organization that's more about about offering online services for coops, that we may start some sort of collaboration with, but we'll see where that goes.

     Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅 likes this.
   • LinuxWalt (@lnxw48a1) {3EB165E0-5BB1-45D2-9E7D-93B31821F864} (lnxw48a1@nu.federati.net)'s status on Tuesday, 01-Feb-2022 12:20:14 UTC LinuxWalt (@lnxw48a1) {3EB165E0-5BB1-45D2-9E7D-93B31821F864}

     in reply to
     @clacke A lot of organizations and unorganized groups moved to groups.io after groups.yahoo.com shut down.
   • Your friendly 'net denizen (cstanhope@social.coop)'s status on Tuesday, 01-Feb-2022 13:57:24 UTC Your friendly 'net denizen

     in reply to

     @clacke Thanks for bringing up May First again. I had recently listened to a podcast about it, and meant to make some notes, but completely dropped the ball for some reason:

     https://realcoopstories.org/alfredo-lopez-may-first-movement-technology/

     Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅 likes this.
   • Steve Herrick (steve@social.coop)'s status on Tuesday, 01-Feb-2022 18:33:37 UTC Steve Herrick

     in reply to

     • Your friendly 'net denizen

     @cstanhope @clacke I'm also looking at starting several mailing lists, and I plan to go with either a local-ish software co-op or May First. We almost switched to May First a couple of years ago, and we still, uh, may.

     Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅 likes this.
   • Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅 (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Tuesday, 01-Feb-2022 19:12:10 UTC Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅

     in reply to

     • Your friendly 'net denizen
     @cstanhope That's great, that will be my bedtime listening.
   • Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅 (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Wednesday, 02-Feb-2022 02:48:10 UTC Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅

     in reply to

     • David Sterry
     If you're ok with support being in French, Domaine Public offers mailing lists ("Listes de diffusions (Mailman/Sympa)").
     www.domainepublic.net/Les-serv…
     
     I don't know enough French to dig into how they're structured, but they are an asbl, "association sans but lucratif", a non-profit association.
     
     www.domainepublic.net/Nous-sou…
     /via www.chatons.org/search/by-serv…
     /via c4.social/@weex/10771813784036… @weex
   • Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅 (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Wednesday, 02-Feb-2022 02:59:02 UTC Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅

     in reply to
     Infini offers a mailing list service: listes.infini.fr/wws
     
     It is located in Brest, Brittany, has been around since 1995 and is some form of membership organization, with mostly other organizations as members, but also individuals.
     
     www.infini.fr/l-hebergeur-asso…
     
     /via www.chatons.org/search/by-serv…
   • Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅 (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Wednesday, 02-Feb-2022 03:23:41 UTC Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅

     in reply to
     KAZ offers mailing lists using Sympa:
     
     listes.kaz.bzh/wws/home
     
     KAZ is a "collective of citizens" and an "association for popular education", I cannot find out what that means in more concrete terms. Membership is free, so not exactly a consumer coop.
     
     .bzh is the Brittany TLD.
     
     kaz.bzh/qui_sommes_nous.html
     
     /via www.chatons.org/search/by-serv…
   • Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅 (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Wednesday, 02-Feb-2022 03:30:52 UTC Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅

     in reply to
     L'Autre Net membership includes "20 listes de diffusion (Mailman)".
     
     www.lautre.net/
     
     The description sounds like a consumer cooperative; You join, pay membership fees, participate in governance. It seems to be talking about individuals only. Admins are volunteers.
     
     www.lautre.net/spip.php?articl…
     
     /via www.chatons.org/search/by-serv…
   • Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅 (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Thursday, 03-Feb-2022 23:20:21 UTC Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅

     in reply to

     • jay 🌺
     @j12i Nebulae still allows members direct influence over how operations are run. I don't know enough French to determine if they're an actual cooperative or not, also they're not putting all their information on the website, so they might be.
     
     From your words Datenkollektiv sounds like it might be a worker cooperative but not a consumer cooperative. Either way, worth an honorable mention, thanks!
   • jay 🌺 (j12i@weirder.earth)'s status on Thursday, 03-Feb-2022 23:20:22 UTC jay 🌺

     in reply to

     @clacke
     https://www.datenkollektiv.net/kollektiv/
     It's a small business without hierarchy, would you consider that a coop? No stake for users though, they're just customers legally I think.
     https://www.datenkollektiv.net/angebote/mailinglisten/

   • jay 🌺 (j12i@weirder.earth)'s status on Thursday, 03-Feb-2022 23:20:22 UTC jay 🌺

     in reply to

     @clacke Quite similar to what you wrote about nebulae above, I think.