@codeberg I may be the weird one that wants git send-email again. There is so much human context switching and unnecessary clicking in the make a fork, clone the fork, hack, push, click the submit PR button, watch for that, delete your fork, etc. cycle. Like, I've already got this cloned, I want to just write a patch and hit a button to send it up. There are so many dead forks on #Github that were made by somebody that just wanted to send in a patch.

@chris I can understand. I guess I encourage people to try to break the Github monopoly that's out there, as much as they can. It's so ingrained in even Go and such.

@chris Thanks! It was taken by my son on one of our flights together. My long-repressed aviation dream got un-repressed a few years ago What kind of flying did you do? Also #AOPA has a rusty pilots program in case you ever get back into it 🙂

@aw Also thanks for pointing me to #stagit, that one is new to me!

@alcinnz Ooo, #BugsEverywhere looks nifty! Thanks!

@ij Those are thought-provoking points. There is a network effect on those sites, which can be helpful, but it's a 2-edged sword. To be sure, my projects are always somewhat obscure and I occasionally get drive-by PRs and issue submissions, but not very often. I guess I've seen the main thing as "I already have an account here, so I can make a PR a way I know" rather than surfacing interesting projects.

Did you mean a push mirror from localhost to codeberg, or from codeberg to #github?

@ij @codeberg 2/ I find myself appreciating much about both approaches. I will definitely appreciate the CI and mailing lists on #Sourcehut, and the nonprofit nature of #Codeberg. (Sourcehut will eventually charge for services, with exceptions for those unable to pay; while this is perfectly reasonable for a place where "your attention is not the product" and where an account isn't necessary for collaboration, it could have some limiting effects.)

I think I will now join both and experiment.

@eludom 2/ And the #Github -style workflow is TERRIBLE when you stop to think about it. Any PR of any size can't be effectively reviewed in the web interface. So you have comments on the web, and code locally, and are constantly having to context switch, which is expensive for humans. The hub CLI and clients only mitigate this to a small extent. The original #git workflow - patches via email with integrated discussion - still makes tons of sense to me.

@eludom The important question right there. So I love about #DVCS that every participant is, technologically, an equal peer. The only thing special about the Linux kernel tree is the sociological agreement that it's special. But with #github and similar (#gitlab, #gitea, etc), the site becomes special. My repo on my laptop isn't an equal participant; I have to clone it to Github to even attempt that. With the centralization of so much metadata about the project, failure of GH is risky. 1/

@eludom 3/ So centralization is causing important details about a project to be locked up at #github -- bad enough -- but also forcing humans to context switch between local code and remote website, and fragmenting discussion into n different places. The only reason people haven't risen up against the high barriers to entry at #Github is because "everyone" already has a #Github account, right?

@aw Interesting! I hadn't known of git-request-pull. Yes, I worry that many people don't have a local MTA configured and so git-send-email (or, it seems, git-request-pull) aren't going to work and they'll be baffled why.

@F1RUM @codeberg Thank you, yep! Codeberg is on my radar as a solid Gitea instance. If I wind up with #Gitea, that might a place I go to if I don't host it myself.

@brennen @kelbot You sent me down an interesting path. I just learned of @forgefed and #gogs, which seems to be a gitea-like idea. AFAICT, nobody has implemented federation yet, but people are interested!

I'd like to move my code off #Github. But to where? #Gitea, #Gitlab, etc. are basically things in the same area. #Git itself is decentralized, and I hate to centralize it again. Yet people seem to have forgotten git send-email. #sourcehut looks somewhat interesting. Are there other takes on #Git collaboration that make efforts to preserve decentralization?

@slips Yep, I know. Although there's value in replacing one centralized service controlled by a corporation with a centralized service not controlled by a corporation, it's still a centralized service.

@slips To be honest, I'm not entirely sure I know what I want. I've used distributed VCS since before Github (or even Git) existed, and things like git format-patch make tons of sense to me. But I am aware, not to many others. In short, Git is based for decentralized collaboration but the world has standardized on centralized collaboration. I'm looking for things that can nudge that needle back in the decentralized direction. https://www.reddit.com/r/git/comments/5w55pp/gitdit_decentralized_issue_tracking_for_git/ is interesting, for instance.

@thomasfuchs Where did you find that?

2/ 12 yr old: "What programming language do they use to write OSs?"

Me: C.

Kid: "OK! I'll learn that. Do you have any books on C?"

Me: Just one. (It's the K&R ANSI C one)

So tonight we sit down with K&R and I introduce him to the ways of #Emacs also. He is DELIGHTED. He introduces a bug into his program, then finds it himself. He has informed me we will be doing C all day tomorrow, and that C is the best language.

3/ What can I say, he's a dreamer in the most adorable way, and loving every minute of the journey. I have no doubt he's going to enjoy every step of the way on this, wherever it takes him.

12yr old: "Dad, I'm going to write my own operating system FROM SCRATCH!"

Me: "Wow! Just so you know, it usually takes teams several years to do."

Kid: "OK! You can help me. It'll take a year. Also I need a website." [[I proceed to show him how to register a domain, and he does.]]

1/