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1. Siem (human_dude@weirder.earth)'s status on Saturday, 23-Apr-2022 21:12:12 UTC Siem

   Small correction "the friendzone" was in 1994 already used and popularized in 'Friends' the TV show

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   • Eldan Goldenberg (eldang@weirder.earth)'s status on Saturday, 23-Apr-2022 21:12:08 UTC Eldan Goldenberg

     in reply to

     @human_dude Yeah, I was going to reply to similar effect: I definitely remember the "friendzone" idea being a mainstream thing well before online forums were being used beyond a very nerdy niche subculture. I hadn't encountered that "ladders" imagery, and when I did buy into the basic idea it was less all-or-nothing. More like "once you have a friendship that is valued enough, it becomes too scary to try to make it anything else".

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   • Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅 (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Saturday, 23-Apr-2022 21:29:38 UTC Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅

     in reply to

     • Eldan Goldenberg
     @eldang @human_dude The real-world "friendzone" would be the en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westerma… , but it wouldn't apply to people you just met in your school or workplace.
     
     These men just didn't have girls as friends when they were boys, so they don't understand looking at members of their romantically preferred gender as anything other than romantic interests.
     
     Same as where homophobia comes from: They think that if you like men, obviously you would be hitting on them or rejecting them entirely, friendship is *impossible*.
   • Sophie Jane (ghost_bird@mythago.space)'s status on Saturday, 23-Apr-2022 21:30:07 UTC Sophie Jane

     in reply to

     • Eldan Goldenberg

     @eldang @human_dude It’s one of those definitional things, I think, but you can find most of the core MRA beliefs in early-90s Cerebus the Aardvark, and I’m told the foundation text for the modern MRA movement (Warren Farrell’s “The Myth of Male Power”) was published in 1993

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   • Sophie Jane (ghost_bird@mythago.space)'s status on Saturday, 23-Apr-2022 21:30:08 UTC Sophie Jane

     in reply to

     • Eldan Goldenberg

     @eldang @human_dude For that matter, MRAs go back to the early 90s too - as anyone who used to read Cerebus can tell you :-/

   • Eldan Goldenberg (eldang@weirder.earth)'s status on Saturday, 23-Apr-2022 21:30:08 UTC Eldan Goldenberg

     in reply to

     • Sophie Jane

     @ghost_bird @human_dude Heh, fair. I would describe the milieu in which I was steeped around that time as not MRAs, but fertile ground for later MRA recruitment.

   • Eldan Goldenberg (eldang@weirder.earth)'s status on Saturday, 23-Apr-2022 21:30:09 UTC Eldan Goldenberg

     in reply to

     @human_dude It's still BS, but I'm not surprised that when MRAs and/or PUAs picked it up and ran with it they made it into worse and more sexist BS.

   • Elda King (eldaking@weirder.earth)'s status on Saturday, 23-Apr-2022 21:30:50 UTC Elda King

     in reply to

     • Eldan Goldenberg

     @eldang @human_dude Yeah, as an aroace (that didn't know that term yet) my early understanding of the term was a lot more benign. "Wow, it really is unfortunate when two people - of any gender - have different goals/expectations for a relationship. Must be frustrating and awkward. I think I have friendzoned some girls in the past."

     Eventually of course I realized people did not mean what I thought they did with the term.

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   • Siem (human_dude@weirder.earth)'s status on Saturday, 23-Apr-2022 23:08:23 UTC Siem

     in reply to

     • Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅
     • Eldan Goldenberg

     @clacke @eldang the more I think about and hear it, the more sad it gets :(

     (Not that that excuses anyone from their shitty behaviour if it comes from any of this)

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