@KARiley40 Not only reduced the cost of, has increased short-term-convenience. But long-term, we're taking a "loan against the future" that cannot be repaid because we are making future life harder.

I see a lot of my peers in my generation (millenials) blaming financial situation on our parents' generations making life harder for us for their convenience.

But that's going to be nothing compared to "converting the planet to trash", which has accelerated in our generation. We need to change.

@KARiley40 What I don't agree with is that if we want to be "on target" for an environment that is inhabitable for future generations that individuals won't be inconvenienced in the short term. It's not just straws; industrial use of disposable plastic has, in the short term, reduced the cost of consumer goods.

But in the long run, if we change our methods of manufacturing, I don't think it will be a significant reduction of convenience. There's a lot of money for innovation there too.

@KARiley40 Definitely good to eliminate that.

It's true that people hyperfocus on plastic straws... even in the consumer sector, omnipresent plastic wrap around nearly everything purchased is probably more serious. That said, awareness starts somewhwere; the main thing is, can it spread? (And ack that you're pushing for spreading it to some other things.)

@Greg @liw *looks at ceiling nervously*

Ours is heavily textured, but I don't think it looks quite like the popcorn ceilings I'm seeing on the intarwebs

That said... I wouldn't be surprised...

@KARiley40 but the helium case is indeed a serious concern

@KARiley40 Not mutually exclusive? I suspect more disposable straws are present these days than disposable balloons (certainly more plastic I have consumed comes from the former than the latter). At any rate, a better goal to state than banning plastic straws is "mostly eliminating them" (leaving accessibility cases intact)

@rick_777 I'm a better leader by thinking / philosophy / hacking (and when I have to, community organizing) than I am by management / executive type things, so I don't think I'm a very good fit for that kind of stuff

@lain Obviously we want to leave that path open but not have it be you-must-be-this-tall-to-have-user-freedom :)

@lain Indeed, we need to do better; everyone deserves user freedom, not just people who can figure out how to compile software at the command line.

When computers are involved in the inputs you experience, the outputs you produce, and your reasoning process, the distinction between those computers and you blurs considerably.

Increasingly, not having user freedom means not having agency. This work is critical.

I get nervous when I think about how long it's taken community-oriented free software to have interfaces that resemble "could be comfortable on mobile" and how much more critical user freedom concerns will be when we're all wearing sensory-modifying wearable computing and how hard it will be for the FOSS world to adjust its software to comfortably work on augmented reality type systems

joke's on me, probably neither of them are appropriate to this use case

#vaguejokes about rabbitholes

paradigm to apply for varying levels of access to vat methods

[ ] rights amplification
[ ] facet
[ ] what? huh???

negative feelings of self worth again brought on by too much to do making me feel like I'm not making enough progress (I am working hard and making progress... there's just more I always want to be doing)

it's probably not helpful to keep moving my own goalpost off into the distance, which I seem to have a habit of doing

@anton I'm sketching one out in org-mode after a while of feeling stuck. Starting to feel un-stuck!