Conversation

Notices

1. Software Freedom Conservancy (conservancy@mastodon.technology)'s status on Tuesday, 05-Jul-2022 00:03:09 UTC Software Freedom Conservancy

   Today is the day to #GiveUpGitHub

   • Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅 likes this.
   • Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅 repeated this.
   • Software Freedom Conservancy (conservancy@mastodon.technology)'s status on Tuesday, 05-Jul-2022 02:43:59 UTC Software Freedom Conservancy

     in reply to

     Over the coming months @conservancy will release guides and stories from projects that have moved away from GitHub. Let's shed light on the damage that is caused by centralizing community development on proprietary platforms.

   • Huntra :vim: :ubuntu: (huntra@mastodon.technology)'s status on Tuesday, 05-Jul-2022 02:43:59 UTC Huntra :vim: :ubuntu:

     in reply to

     @conservancy i can say moving from github to codeberg was very painless! The gitea migration tools are excellent

     Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅 likes this.
   • Software Freedom Conservancy (conservancy@mastodon.technology)'s status on Tuesday, 05-Jul-2022 02:44:00 UTC Software Freedom Conservancy

     in reply to

     We call on people in positions of power in their FOSS communities to stop using GitHub and stop recommending it. GitHub, as a proprietary, trade-secret platform cannot be the singular development community for FOSS projects.

     Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅 likes this.
   • Software Freedom Conservancy (conservancy@mastodon.technology)'s status on Tuesday, 05-Jul-2022 02:44:00 UTC Software Freedom Conservancy

     in reply to

     Gratis resources often entice & trap FOSS developers into a proprietary gated community — the walled garden of @GitHub. Remember: FOSS faced similar before — triumphantly. We'll do so again if take action now to protect our communities.

     Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅 likes this.
     Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅 repeated this.
   • Software Freedom Conservancy (conservancy@mastodon.technology)'s status on Tuesday, 05-Jul-2022 02:44:01 UTC Software Freedom Conservancy

     in reply to

     We can no longer in good conscience stay silent about problems w/#GitHub's products. This latest effort to capitalize on the corpus of #copyleft code hosted on GitHub is merely the latest of their many ethical and moral lapses.

     Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅 repeated this.
   • Software Freedom Conservancy (conservancy@mastodon.technology)'s status on Tuesday, 05-Jul-2022 02:44:06 UTC Software Freedom Conservancy

     in reply to

     We tried to communicate w/ #GitHub re: #Copilot; they have outright refused to answer community questions on Copilot & took it for-profit. Copilot ignores copyleft requirements; so it's time to #GiveUpGitHub https://GiveUpGitHub.org

   • Software Freedom Conservancy (conservancy@mastodon.technology)'s status on Tuesday, 05-Jul-2022 02:46:03 UTC Software Freedom Conservancy

     in reply to

     Please join us and #GiveUpGitHub by visiting https://GiveUpGitHub.org/ and while you are still on #GitHub, adding information to your README that you do not agree with GitHub's policies and monopolized place in our community.

     Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅 repeated this.
   • Software Freedom Conservancy (conservancy@mastodon.technology)'s status on Tuesday, 05-Jul-2022 02:46:03 UTC Software Freedom Conservancy

     in reply to

     To read more about this effort see our blog post at https://sfconservancy.org/blog/2022/jun/30/give-up-github-launch/

   • : ( ) { : | : & } ; : (mousebot@todon.nl)'s status on Tuesday, 05-Jul-2022 02:46:18 UTC : ( ) { : | : & } ; :

     in reply to

     @conservancy holy god damn i wish the whole emacs community development ecosystem would ditch github

     Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅 likes this.
   • Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅 (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Tuesday, 05-Jul-2022 02:49:44 UTC Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅

     in reply to

     • Codeberg.org
     • ArneBab
     • loveisgrief
     Woodpecker CI on @codeberg is a good alternative to GitHub Actions.
     
     @loveisgrief @conservancy @ArneBab
   • loveisgrief@mastodon.online's status on Tuesday, 05-Jul-2022 02:49:45 UTC loveisgrief

     in reply to

     • ArneBab

     @ArneBab Gitlab CI maybe? @conservancy

   • arnebab@rollenspiel.social's status on Tuesday, 05-Jul-2022 02:49:46 UTC ArneBab

     in reply to

     @conservancy Are there good (and gratis) alternatives to GitHub actions?

   • rain variety wood elf (klardotsh@merveilles.town)'s status on Tuesday, 05-Jul-2022 02:49:55 UTC rain variety wood elf

     in reply to

     • tech? no! man, see...
     • Codeberg.org

     @technomancy @codeberg Does your list of projects ever end? I'd known you as Cool Mastodon Dude for weeks before learning you ran Fennel, then several more months before I learned you were behind the Atreus keyboard, and I've now been following you for over a year, possibly years plural, before learning you did Leiningen

     This is like the Russian Stacking Doll of code productivity and smash hit projects

     Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅 likes this.
   • tech? no! man, see... (technomancy@icosahedron.website)'s status on Tuesday, 05-Jul-2022 02:49:56 UTC tech? no! man, see...

     in reply to

     • Codeberg.org

     LB: I moved all my projects except Leiningen off github a couple years ago, and now I'm looking into moving that as well. a read-only mirror will probably remain on github for a few years to ease the transition, but I'm looking at @codeberg as the new home for my last remaining github-hosted project once I can get the CI setup switched over.

   • tech? no! man, see... (technomancy@icosahedron.website)'s status on Tuesday, 05-Jul-2022 02:50:15 UTC tech? no! man, see...

     in reply to

     now that I got CI working on codeberg, I'm ready to proceed with moving Leiningen off github for #giveupgithub

     I've opened an issue here to gather feedback from the community; please chime in if you're a Leiningen user and you have thoughts about where to move: https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/issues/2800

     Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅 likes this.
   • Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅 (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Tuesday, 05-Jul-2022 02:59:12 UTC Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅

     in reply to

     • Codeberg.org
     • Snappy Ranger
     @snappy_ranger Check out @codeberg which offers Gitea, Codeberg Pages and Woodpecker CI, which together cover what most projects need from github, and is run as a non-profit member association rather than a mega corporation or VC-funded startup.
     
     @conservancy
   • Snappy Ranger (snappy_ranger@mastodon.social)'s status on Tuesday, 05-Jul-2022 02:59:16 UTC Snappy Ranger

     in reply to

     @conservancy Does anyone know of an alternative to GitHub? Just being curious.

   • Strypey (strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz)'s status on Tuesday, 05-Jul-2022 09:43:12 UTC Strypey

     in reply to

     • Juan Luis

     @astrojuanlu I agree that the UX of much free code software needs improving and lots of people are working on that. But keep in mind that one thing driving those improvements in the UX of proprietary software is the existential risk of users switching to the free code equivalent. If the vendors of proprietary software can scupper their free code competitors - eg by diluting copyleft protection - then there's a risk that those who sacrifice freedom for convenience will have neither.

     @conservancy

     Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅 likes this.
   • Juan Luis (astrojuanlu@fosstodon.org)'s status on Tuesday, 05-Jul-2022 09:43:17 UTC Juan Luis

     in reply to

     Pretty weak arguments to #GiveUpGithub. Lots of reasons to stay: UI that works, low friction, accessibility, lots of value at zero cost (gratis).

     @conservancy When are copyleft zealots going to value good UI design, accessibility, and products that work for once?

   • tech? no! man, see... (technomancy@icosahedron.website)'s status on Wednesday, 06-Jul-2022 23:21:42 UTC tech? no! man, see...

     in reply to

     • Brion Vibber
     • brennen

     @brion @brennen it's true that federated login is the main blocker and provides 90% of the benefit.

     replicating the data out to other places feels like it could have positive implications for offline use, which has long been a sore point for issues, but I haven't thought that thru.

     Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅 likes this.
   • brennen (brennen@federation.p1k3.com)'s status on Wednesday, 06-Jul-2022 23:21:43 UTC brennen

     in reply to

     • tech? no! man, see...

     @technomancy (this is why i keep hoping for federation in gitea, but at any rate i maybe should give things like codeberg a look.)

   • Brion Vibber (brion@mastodon.technology)'s status on Wednesday, 06-Jul-2022 23:21:43 UTC Brion Vibber

     in reply to

     • tech? no! man, see...
     • brennen

     @brennen @technomancy (federation feels like the wrong model for code repos -- what I want is to be able to identify myself to the repo in a consistent way when I write issue reports or want code review on a branch. being able to slap in a g*th*b or g**gle account to log into a gitlab instance handles this almost ok, but less centralized identity providers would be better)

   • brennen (brennen@federation.p1k3.com)'s status on Wednesday, 06-Jul-2022 23:21:44 UTC brennen

     in reply to

     • tech? no! man, see...

     @technomancy i'm curious about the vibe of an actual shared gitea instance. a solo one has been nice enough, but aside from linking people to my published code there's not *that* much utility in a code forge no one else is using...

   • tech? no! man, see... (technomancy@icosahedron.website)'s status on Wednesday, 06-Jul-2022 23:21:45 UTC tech? no! man, see...

     in reply to

     if you've looked at moving off github in the past and ended up extremely unimpressed by the janky ui and bugs of gitlab, i don't blame you. but please give https://codeberg.org and other gitea sites a second look; they are head and shoulders above gitlab in usability and stability.

   • brennen (brennen@federation.p1k3.com)'s status on Wednesday, 06-Jul-2022 23:22:09 UTC brennen

     in reply to

     • tech? no! man, see...
     • Brion Vibber

     @brion

     (i don't think federation at the forge / review tool level is exactly what i *want*, but it seems like it could be a reasonable way to spackle over parts of what feel to me like the core problem:

     we have an effective monopolist in the code forge space because acceding to total centralization was the easiest way for users to get a bunch of stuff that the allegedly-distributed VCS's data model & interface can't accommodate, even though it's super useful stuff.)
     @technomancy

     Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅 likes this.
   • brennen (brennen@federation.p1k3.com)'s status on Wednesday, 06-Jul-2022 23:22:29 UTC brennen

     in reply to

     • tech? no! man, see...
     • Brion Vibber

     @brion @technomancy (this is just my "reviews & annotation should be modeled in the vcs" rant again plus my "holy shit does git's interface suck" rant again i guess.)

     Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅 likes this.
   • enot (enot@hackers.town)'s status on Wednesday, 06-Jul-2022 23:25:54 UTC enot

     in reply to

     @conservancy deleted it all today

     Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅 likes this.
   • Strypey (strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz)'s status on Thursday, 07-Jul-2022 05:28:25 UTC Strypey

     in reply to

     • Juan Luis

     @astrojuanlu Two things. This ...

     > the UI/UX of most free-as-in-freedom user applications is still terrible, with no signs of improving.

     ... is blatantly untrue. I can give multiple counter-examples. Your comment is based on what suits your argument, not actual observations over that time. Yet you call us zealots?

     Secondly, you've ignored the actual point of my post, which is the role of free code competitors as a driver of UX improvements in proprietary products.

     @conservancy

     Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅 likes this.
   • Juan Luis (astrojuanlu@fosstodon.org)'s status on Thursday, 07-Jul-2022 05:28:26 UTC Juan Luis

     in reply to

     • Strypey

     @strypey @conservancy Copyleft protection has been with us 40 years and the UI/UX of most free-as-in-freedom user applications is still terrible, with no signs of improving. The Copilot thing hardly changes anything.