Eugen 🎄
Even two years on, I still have no idea which direction #Bluesky is intending to go. Though it seems like if they wanted to adopt an existing protocol, they would've already done so.
I'll only say that the challenges of building a decentralized social network are anywhere but the actual protocol. Mastodon started on one protocol, then switched to another. Decisions that matter are in product design. Marketing.
If they propose a new protocol, what would make it worth resetting all that to zero?
Rysiekúr Memesson
@Gargron the aim of BlueSky seems to be to create a decentralized, federated social network that is controlled and monetized by a single entity.
In other words, to square a circle.
So this is going exactly as well as could be expected. 😉
Rysiekúr Memesson
@homegrown @Gargron yes, but that's also a *good* piece of news: 2 years on, Twitter has still not figured out how to embrace, extend, and extinguish fedi.
Grow Your Own Services
Exactly. Corporations like Twitter and Facebook are structurally incapable of decentralisation. They will never do it unless threatened with huge profit-destroying fines.
Twitter's management just want to make money.
Fediverse developers just want to make decentralised social networks.
So, Fedi goes ahead and actually makes decentralised social networks, while Twitter does absolutely nothing.
Eugen 🎄
@loweel ActivityPub has enabled more than a dozen independent software implementations to cooperate in the largest, to-date, decentralized social network. And if it's "a mess" because it takes a developer a bit longer to implement properly, then it's more than worth it, because that's a thing that happens once per implementation and just shouldn't count in the grand scheme of things.
It's also preposterous to assume another protocol would be simpler and maintain the same applicability.
Eugen 🎄
@loweel Someone out there is saying the same about HTTP and DNS. HTTP used to be simple and straight-forward, but then came HTTP/2, and HTTP/3, and TLS, and suddenly you can't just use telnet for it anymore. But all those evolutions that make it more of a mess are necessary to support its diverse use.
Loweel
@Gargron well, because ActivityPub is a mess of protocol?
Santa Claes 🇸🇪ðŸ‡ðŸ‡°ðŸŽ…
Adamas Nemesis
@Gargron Indeed. Bluesky should just adopt ActivityPub and be done with it.
Rysiekúr Memesson
@humanetech @erosdiscordia @homegrown @Gargron
> The battle won't be getting community consent, but tech molochs between themselves fighting it out.
That's why we need regulation. As imperfect and blunt an instrument it is, it's the only tool we have to meaningfully affect Big Tech.
Grow Your Own Services
@rysiek @humanetech @erosdiscordia @Gargron
I wonder if Twitter is trying to make a faux decentralised system, sort of like the puppet states of the old empires.
In theory the puppet states were independent (to keep their populations happy), but in practice their governments were controlled by the empire.
Regulators really need to be on their toes to prevent this. And yes we definitely need strong regulators with real power, it's the only language the companies will obey.
Rysiekúr Memesson
@erosdiscordia @homegrown @Gargron can we have less of the "FA" and more of the "FO" already for them please.
humanetech
@rysiek @erosdiscordia @homegrown @Gargron
Imho there'ss dangerous underestimation of what FB / TW are capable of. All this public activity is not reflecting of their internal strategies. They won't show their cards until they're ready and can move fast. With their weight they can force themselves into prime positions. The battle won't be getting community consent, but tech molochs between themselves fighting it out.
Bluesky talks hybrid decentralization. They may just expand to that sector.
Rysiekúr Memesson
@erosdiscordia @homegrown @Gargron I mean... https://www.reuters.com/article/us-otc-bizroundtable-idUSKCN1VC2FS
Mystery Babylon
@rysiek @homegrown @Gargron Is there a potential future in which someone takes birdsite privately-owned? Out of curiosity.
Rysiekúr Memesson
@erosdiscordia @homegrown @Gargron very doubtful, I'd say.
Mystery Babylon
@rysiek @homegrown @Gargron Then I will continue to enjoy a billionaire FAFO'ing. :)
Mystery Babylon
@homegrown @rysiek @Gargron I'll go so far as to say the leadership of those corps are *psychologically* incapable of decentralisation.
Rysiekúr Memesson
@erosdiscordia @homegrown @Gargron also... probably *legally*. As insane as that is, the leadership of a publicly traded company is legally bound to work in shareholders' interest.
That means that if they tried doing something risky like changing their paradigm dramatically to a decentralized social network, they could be successfully sued by the shareholders.
Another example how the stock market is problematic.
Rysiekúr Memesson
@homegrown @humanetech @erosdiscordia @Gargron
> I wonder if Twitter is trying to make a faux decentralised system, sort of like the puppet states of the old empires.
Yes. That's what I meant by "a decentralized, federated social network that is controlled and monetized by a single entity."
Ryuno-Ki
@homegrown
There was a second term next to decentralisation… distributed? Can't recall offhand.
I concluded that I'm looking for services that I can host myself (on premise) and allow for data transition.
This way, I'm free to defer the hosting but always have the option to take matters in my own hands if needed.
Now, that is easier with FLOSS.
But there are so many programming languages!
(I already turned into a polyglot).
@rysiek @erosdiscordia @Gargron
Ryuno-Ki
@rysiek
That's why I get really upset once a company enters the stock market.
They stop improving the product for their users, but only look at maximising shareholder value.
@erosdiscordia @homegrown @Gargron
Grow Your Own Services
@RyunoKi @rysiek @erosdiscordia @Gargron
That's why decentralisation is so important, it makes it difficult/impossible for a platform to ever be controlled by a stockmarket company (or anyone else for that matter).
If you're going to switch to an alternative, it's really important that it's decentralised so that it won't get unexpectedly taken over.
Ryuno-Ki
@clacke
Exactly that is what was on my mind!
@Gargron @erosdiscordia @rysiek @homegrown
Santa Claes 🇸🇪ðŸ‡ðŸ‡°ðŸŽ…
Santa Claes 🇸🇪ðŸ‡ðŸ‡°ðŸŽ…
Santa Claes 🇸🇪ðŸ‡ðŸ‡°ðŸŽ…
Jan Wildeboer 😷:krulorange:
@RyunoKi @homegrown @rysiek @erosdiscordia @Gargron the scale is self-owned/peer to peer - decentralised - federated - centralised IMHO.
Jan Wildeboer 😷:krulorange:
@clacke It would be an architecture with "dumb" proxies that help in managing the load in a store and forward way but where these proxies cannot in any way influence the content. @Gargron @erosdiscordia @rysiek @RyunoKi @homegrown
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