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1. 💀 (dualhammers@merveilles.town)'s status on Saturday, 19-Mar-2022 09:40:29 UTC 💀

   • milobeard
   • Garrett

   @milofultz @megabyteGhost the irony in this situation is that I have a creeping concern than veganism is, itself, a kind of techno-solutionism (although a somewhat stealth one)

   • Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅 likes this.
   • rain variety wood elf (klardotsh@merveilles.town)'s status on Saturday, 19-Mar-2022 09:40:29 UTC rain variety wood elf

     in reply to

     • milobeard
     • Garrett

     @dualhammers @milofultz @megabyteGhost I tend to struggle with a similar thing to what you alluded above: weighing the impacts of simply a meat-much-lighter diet (which I currently follow) vs a fully veg diet (which I've dabbled with), and how to fill the dietary holes some veggie diets create without hugely net-negative climate impacts.

     I have this cognitive dissonance the worst when, say, I go to a restaurant and order an Impossible or Beyond Burger. better on one axis, tradeoff on another

     Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅 likes this.
   • Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅 (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Saturday, 19-Mar-2022 09:45:28 UTC Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅

     in reply to

     • milobeard
     • Garrett
     @milofultz @dualhammers @megabyteGhost With meat-lookalikes like Beyond/Impossible/Omni for sure, that's a high-tech solution that might end up costing more for the environment than meat does, plus it lengthens dependency chains in the food system, adding to food fragility.
     
     With plain lentils and beans, not so much. Even with soy meat it's like 15 kg soy per 1 kg meat-meat, but far less for soy meat.
   • milobeard (milofultz@merveilles.town)'s status on Saturday, 19-Mar-2022 09:45:29 UTC milobeard

     in reply to

     • Garrett

     @dualhammers @megabyteGhost can you elaborate? Curious what you mean by this

   • 💀 (dualhammers@merveilles.town)'s status on Sunday, 20-Mar-2022 09:02:10 UTC 💀

     in reply to

     • Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅
     • milobeard
     • Garrett

     @milofultz @clacke @megabyteGhost my general thesis is that my heuristics of "cause the least amount of suffering" and "eat the healthiest diet possible" require a lot more research than I have done, I think. I've been ignoring the more complex and difficult costs to calculate

   • 💀 (dualhammers@merveilles.town)'s status on Sunday, 20-Mar-2022 09:02:10 UTC 💀

     in reply to

     • Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅
     • milobeard
     • Garrett

     @milofultz @clacke @megabyteGhost also I'm allergic to soy. Turns out not eating soy makes eating a full RDA diet while vegan a bit more complicated. Not insurmountable, but perhaps more costly energy wise depending on where I live.

     Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅 likes this.
   • 💀 (dualhammers@merveilles.town)'s status on Sunday, 20-Mar-2022 09:02:11 UTC 💀

     in reply to

     • Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅
     • milobeard
     • Garrett

     @milofultz @clacke @megabyteGhost I was also thinking more base elements like supplementation. Most b12 and nutritional yeast gets shipped all the way from China.

     In terms of direct energy cost it may be low but secondary and tertiary costs of set up and distribution it seems to be high.

     Higher than factory farming? No way. But that's also the reason fake meat looks friendly by comparison.

     Higher than fishing in a river near where you live? I don't know. I'm doing research.

   • milobeard (milofultz@merveilles.town)'s status on Sunday, 20-Mar-2022 09:02:12 UTC milobeard

     in reply to

     • Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅
     • Garrett

     @clacke @dualhammers @megabyteGhost I can see that, that makes sense. Not necessarily veganism itself but the tech bros trying to solve the problem

   • Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅 (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Sunday, 20-Mar-2022 09:42:14 UTC Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅

     in reply to

     • milobeard
     • Garrett
     @dualhammers @megabyteGhost @milofultz Soy was just an example, because it's what we feed cattle, so it's easy to compare. It's not important to a vegan diet at all.
     
     Is it still the case that the recommended daily intake of protein is based entirely on "this is what median consumers eat and
     they seem to be fine", rather than an actual observed protein requirement? I wouldn't care too much about that recommendation.
     
     International shipping for something you eat grams or milligrams of on an annual basis is not something I'd dive too deeply into.
   • Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅 (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Sunday, 27-Mar-2022 03:29:42 UTC Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅

     in reply to

     • milobeard
     • Garrett
     My vegetarian diet is "just no meat" compared to my meat-eater diet, and then some more lentils, beans and corn. But I'm not vegan, so I don't worry about e.g. B12; I expect I get more than enough from cheese and the occasional egg (I don't buy eggs for myself).
     
     Seventeen years on I'm not seeing any health differences.
     
     I lost weight in the beginning as I took the chance to change everything, including eating more regularly and consciously. My life situation at the time allowed for more spare time, fewer distractions and more sleep.
     
     A year or two later though I was eating as much snacks and walking as little as I was before and bounced back to my normal slightly too high weight and that's where I've been since.
   • 💀 (dualhammers@merveilles.town)'s status on Sunday, 27-Mar-2022 03:29:42 UTC 💀

     in reply to

     • Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅

     @clacke how much egg / dairy do you consume?

   • Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅 (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Sunday, 27-Mar-2022 03:32:01 UTC Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅

     in reply to
     @dualhammers Cheese a few slices basically every day, egg not even every week. Yoghurt for breakfast.