Devine Lu Linvega
Answering a series of questions for an article, and I need some inspiration/ideas for this one, any suggestion?
> What do you think needs to happen for more people to adopt more sustainable longterm approaches to computing/permacomputing? What do you think are the biggest structural barriers?
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@neauoire A Verge interview?! Cool, I am excited for it!
Devine Lu Linvega
This was our answer. Thanks to everyone who suggested angles :)
Devine Lu Linvega
@cancel personally, I find that sending our electronic garbage to be broken down by children over fire pits a less-than-ideal situation, but that's just me.
cancel
@neauoire yeah, I'm asking you to give me an answer to that question :)
cancel
@neauoire why would people need to adopt more sustainable longterm approaches?
Devine Lu Linvega
@cancel I don't think I can answer with a question.
The questions come from a place where short term disposable computing is not sustainable.
Devine Lu Linvega
@cancel I'm trying to find something that's a bit more .. perceptible. Also, just other perspectives and reasonings.
Jake Bauer :flan_mail:
@neauoire Perhaps something along the lines of either: a continuous shortage of computer parts (like we've seen with GPUs, chips in automobiles, etc) or more awareness of the impact of manufacturing, how the supply chain works, what the (environmental and human) costs are of manufacturing computing equipment.
Right now I think a big reason why people consume nonchalantly is because the realities of manufacturing and supplying these goods is hidden from them. Same thing with food production.
Julien Deswaef
@neauoire @jbauer I agree with this too. I think the biggest structural barrier is that there is no regulation that imposes yet to electronic manufacturers to design products that follow cicular economy models. Ban all products that don't follow those principles and people will switch to permacomputing, because that will be the only option.
Devine Lu Linvega
@jbauer that's a good one, I think I can use that, moving the waste to the forefront.
nff
@neauoire as with many other things, I think the biggest impact would come from decisions made by governments and (sigh)corporations, that would "set the trend", the masses would follow that trend, change would happen.
And again, as with many other things, we(as in not-governments and not-corporation) can only make a small impact if compared to them, but it's our only choice. And I think the more our effort goes toward "trendsetting", the better.
nff
Like <I salvaged an old laptop instead of buying a new one> VS <look at how cool is upcycling that vintage computer, here's how I did it, I'll happily show you all of that>
So yeah, there's definitely a community/tribal component to that.
The spreading of this type of culture is(or might be) exponential
nff
@neauoire yeah exactly, and THAT might leave a bitter taste in my mouth, but I also understand that broadcasting/marketing, call it what you want, might be a good thing if used for the right reason.
Sometimes it's be difficult to make an extra effort to convince people that something is the right thing to do. But I think that extra effort pays off.
What I'm saying, maybe we can learn from the corps, if samsung made the best 120" 16k screen and tell nodody about it, nobody would buy it
Devine Lu Linvega
@nff that's a good point, so like how the narrative is broadcasted.
mc
@neauoire Structural barriers? The right to repair. To make things easier to repair and keep for a long time, probably by law.
flip
@neauoire I donβt know if we can know until itβs upon us, you know? Iβd *guess* it *includes* finding a way for us to be no more obsessed and attached to our phones and computers than we are to our screwdrivers and tape recorders
Devine Lu Linvega
@flip What do you think this vision should look like?
flip
@neauoire we need a vision stronger than just a healthier cigarette
Deborah Pickett
@suetanvil @paul @neauoire Who would have thought that Vimes Boots Theory applied to electronics too?
Chris [list of cold emoji]
I'd rephrase this as something more like "get used to buying high quality electronics that will last a decade or more."
Same idea, but sounds better.
patchlore
@neauoire sheltered and wishful thinking but: we need to get used to paying more for electronics. The current price expectation has been artificially subsidized to be cheaper. Consumers have such an irrational aversion to paying for hardware that's even slightly more expensive, like they are getting ripped off or something. When really, we should have much more of an aversion to hardware that is cheap. Honest hardware built with quality and integrity should be more important than how much it costs.
Chris [list of cold emoji]
It doesn't really, just because conspicuous upgrading is considered a sign of wealth. But we want to shift perceptions to a place where it does.
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Chris [list of cold emoji]
@clacke @paul @neauoire @futzle
It's definitely more nuanced than my previous toot would imply.
Although if I were going to reduce it to a single driving factor (because reductionism is one of my bad habits), I'd attribute it to Moore's law training people in the 90s and 00s that today's computer is always going to be dramatically better than last year's computer. Those days are long past but the industry keeps faking it by ending support and increasingly desperate gimmickry.
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Zetta
@neauoire thinking more on this... there is the huge issue of greenwashing and lack of actual sustainable options. unless you're scavenging parts from trash you do not have sustainable computing options to purchase. there just aren't any. there are companies that greenwash their shit and buy carbon offsets or run their factories of enslaved labor on solar power, but it is, at its core, a deeply extractive, unsustainable and fragile industry. i still think the framing of the ? is suspect.
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