Conversation

Notices

1. Stephen Sekula (steve@chirp.cooleysekula.net)'s status on Sunday, 29-Jan-2017 16:01:47 UTC Stephen Sekula
   From Twitter https://twitter.com/drsekula: RT @APSPhysicsDC: Tell Congress science matters! Stop by the Contact Congress table. #apsapril #voice4physics https://twitter.com/APSPhysicsDC/status/825733679330820096/photo/1"
   • Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) repeated this.
   • Axe Man (axemansays@sealion.club)'s status on Sunday, 29-Jan-2017 16:15:10 UTC Axe Man

     in reply to
     @steve Science matters, but modern physics and the cosmological mythology that drives it is not anything like science.
     Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) repeated this.
   • Stephen Sekula (steve@chirp.cooleysekula.net)'s status on Tuesday, 31-Jan-2017 23:37:19 UTC Stephen Sekula

     in reply to

     • Axe Man
     What is your specific complaint? Your comment was vague and ill-formed. For instance, give me an example of something you think is not scientific, but which is widely considered to be supported by scientifically gathered evidence.
     Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) repeated this.
   • Axe Man (axemansays@sealion.club)'s status on Wednesday, 01-Feb-2017 03:48:37 UTC Axe Man

     in reply to
     @steve bullshit.
     
     Space does not warp, time does not dilate, Einstein is bullshit and has held physics back for over 100 years.
     
     There are no black holes, dark matter, or gravity waves and the big bang is just a nonsensical creation myth, there is no evidence for any of this fantasy world just false assumptions and mathemagical projections.
     Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) repeated this.
   • Stephen Sekula (steve@chirp.cooleysekula.net)'s status on Wednesday, 01-Feb-2017 12:46:01 UTC Stephen Sekula

     in reply to

     • Axe Man
     Let's say that what you just said - for instance, space not warping and time not dilating - was true. In that case, it should have been possible to launch the global positioning satellite system (which I assume you use for navigation - if not, I am certain something you rely on uses it, given its modern ubiquity) and just uses the radio signals from the satellites, uncorrected for time dilation, to navigate. But if you do that - if you neglect time's stretching due to gravity and motion, the GPS system is more and more off every day by an additional 10km. This is because time passes differently in the satellites than down on earth, owing to their high speed and our position in a stronger gravitational field. Once you correct for that using the basic equations of special and general relativity, voila! The GPS system is accurate again. This is just one example. If you rely on this system, it's dangerous to reject these ideas. They care central to it working at all.
     Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠), @mcscx@quitter.se, inmysocks Of Doom, Naked KSC and Bel Lion like this.
     Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) repeated this.
   • Axe Man (axemansays@sealion.club)'s status on Wednesday, 01-Feb-2017 13:10:17 UTC Axe Man

     in reply to
     @steve Lol, the GPS system does not use Einsteinian relativity.
     
     I and don't use the GPS system.
   • Stephen Sekula (steve@chirp.cooleysekula.net)'s status on Wednesday, 01-Feb-2017 14:03:43 UTC Stephen Sekula

     in reply to

     • Axe Man
     Ok, well, there you can go ahead and ask any engineer that works on the design of these systems. I don't know what your training is, or what your profession is, but go ahead and find engineering information about GPS and you will see that you here very wrong here. That's extremely basic information about the GPS system.
     
     Since you're not being very open-minded in this conversation, I recommend that we stop talking. Your resistance to basic information like this means you need to do some homework before denying physics concepts. It's not enough to reject them; you have to have evidence to reject a claim, and I recommend you take some basic physics online free courses (e.g. the OpenCourseWare from Yale's physics course by Prof. Ramamurti Shankar, freely available in its entirety on YouTube).
     
     I've enjoyed some of our conversation and I wish you well.
     @mcscx@quitter.se and ghostDancer like this.
     Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) repeated this.
   • Axe Man (axemansays@sealion.club)'s status on Wednesday, 01-Feb-2017 14:07:55 UTC Axe Man

     in reply to
     @steve It was an engineer that worked on the project that admitted it didn't use relativistic calculations.
     
     My understanding of real physic, newton and maxwell is pretty good thanks.
     
     Maybe you should do a refresher on basic logic and scientific concepts and apply them to nonsense like the Big Bang Theory.
   • Axe Man (axemansays@sealion.club)'s status on Wednesday, 01-Feb-2017 14:16:15 UTC Axe Man

     in reply to
     @steve http://rebelscience.blogspot.com.au/2010/05/why-einsteins-physics-is-crap-part-i.html
   • Stephen Sekula (steve@chirp.cooleysekula.net)'s status on Wednesday, 01-Feb-2017 14:39:36 UTC Stephen Sekula

     in reply to

     • Axe Man
     Your provided reference is a non-scientific site. The author offers no real credentials. They are a poor source of information. Anyone can make a .com or .org site and say anything they want; avoid them as primary sources.
     
     Here, for instance, is a key bulletin that handset manufacturers are required to follow in order to make sure their handset receivers implement the 2nd-order relativistic corrections needed to adjust for non-standard satellite orbits, which affect GPS signals beyond the frequency corrections built into the satellites to handle the bulk of the time dilation effects:
     
     http://www.gps.gov/technical/icwg/IS-GPS-200E.pdf
     
     As you can see by searching through the document, there is extensive mathematics to implement in software to make the final corrections and achieve full possible accuracy.
     
     It's unfortunate the one engineer you spoke with didn't know this. putting you on the wrong path.
     
     Newton + Maxwell are good, but insufficient to understand the universe.
     Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) and @mcscx@quitter.se like this.
     Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) repeated this.
   • Axe Man (axemansays@sealion.club)'s status on Wednesday, 01-Feb-2017 14:44:32 UTC Axe Man

     in reply to
     @steve totally sufficient actually.
     
     has your Einstain and big bang explained it?
     
     lol no. It has to invent nonsense like dark matter.
     
     The electric universe theory explains observed phenomena without imaginary fudge factors and creation myths, has made accurate predictions, and can be verified with small scale experiments here on earth.
     TheCharmingAlbino likes this.
   • Axe Man (axemansays@sealion.club)'s status on Wednesday, 01-Feb-2017 14:47:36 UTC Axe Man

     in reply to
     @steve Do you know what genetic fallacies and arguments from authority are?
   • Stephen Sekula (steve@chirp.cooleysekula.net)'s status on Wednesday, 01-Feb-2017 14:54:50 UTC Stephen Sekula

     in reply to

     • Axe Man
     Well, Einstein was just one of thousands of physicists in the 20th century who contributed small steps in understanding the universe, and of course tremendous progress was made. The laws of physics, which include Maxwell's Equations and Special Relativity (which, itself, includes Newton's Laws, and so is not separate from it), are known well enough to predict the behavior of the universe back to about a billionths of a second after time began. Thousands of measurements have assessed these ideas and led to the rejection of alternative explanations - the scientific method. Is our knowledge complete? Nope. Never said it was. A good scientist knows the limits of knowledge. But a good scientist also knows that you don't give up, and you keep using an idea until it breaks. I hope relativity and quantum physics break in my lifetime, so we can learn the better idea. Until they stop working, we'll keep testing them.
     Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠), @mcscx@quitter.se and ghostDancer and 2 others like this.
     Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) repeated this.
   • Axe Man (axemansays@sealion.club)'s status on Wednesday, 01-Feb-2017 14:56:49 UTC Axe Man

     in reply to
     @steve bullshit, there was no big bang, your predication are mathemagical non- physical fantasy that can't be proven experimentally..
     Kaiser©®™ likes this.
   • Kaiser©®™ (dogjaw@freezepeach.xyz)'s status on Wednesday, 01-Feb-2017 14:59:14 UTC Kaiser©®™

     in reply to

     • Axe Man
     @axemansays @steve Not to mention that Einstein was christian and said that "God does not play dice with the universe" which shows that even one of the greatest physicists of all time didn't believe in randomness which is required for a big bang and life to occur for an atheist.
     Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) repeated this.
   • Stephen Sekula (steve@chirp.cooleysekula.net)'s status on Wednesday, 01-Feb-2017 15:00:40 UTC Stephen Sekula

     in reply to

     • Axe Man
     As I said earlier, you clearly have some kind of world view or other thing that you are working to protect. I'm going to go back to being a practicing scientist, testing the natural world in the hopes of finding a better explanation for it, one that explains all that came before and predicts new things we can test. I recommend you go back to your work, too. I wish you well. I really do encourage you you to work through one of those online university courses, if you're really interested in and serious about physics. If you have questions about what you learn, feel free to ask.
     
     Have a good day! (or whatever time-zone appropriate sign-off is needed here)
     Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) likes this.
     Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) repeated this.
   • Axe Man (axemansays@sealion.club)'s status on Wednesday, 01-Feb-2017 15:01:56 UTC Axe Man

     in reply to
     @steve so what experimental evidence is there for the big bang?
   • Axe Man (axemansays@sealion.club)'s status on Wednesday, 01-Feb-2017 15:02:47 UTC Axe Man

     in reply to
     @steve Maths is not Physics.
   • TheRealPennyForTheGuy (therealpennyfortheguy@mastodon.social)'s status on Wednesday, 01-Feb-2017 15:08:06 UTC TheRealPennyForTheGuy

     in reply to

     • Axe Man

     @steve @axemansays

     Ahhh .. but do you possess natural talent? "Drummer"
     Can you naturally fold, mold, and hold yourself into a song from go to whoa? Just by feel alone?

     Or were you taught?

   • Axe Man (axemansays@sealion.club)'s status on Wednesday, 01-Feb-2017 15:45:37 UTC Axe Man

     in reply to
     @steve http://www.alternativephysics.org/book/GPSmythology.htm
   • Stephen Sekula (steve@chirp.cooleysekula.net)'s status on Wednesday, 01-Feb-2017 22:41:13 UTC Stephen Sekula

     in reply to

     • Axe Man
     First, let's make sure we understand the big bang hypothesis:
     
     1. The universe started out very small and, since matter and energy were compressed into a small volume, very hot.
     
     2. The universe expanded with time, cooling in the process.
     Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) repeated this.
   • Stephen Sekula (steve@chirp.cooleysekula.net)'s status on Wednesday, 01-Feb-2017 22:44:20 UTC Stephen Sekula

     in reply to

     • Axe Man
     Second, let's understand the early predictions of such an idea.
     
     1. One should observe that very distant astronomical objects, corresponding to faint objects (e.g. because intensity falls off with distance), are moving away from us in any direction we look.
     
     Evidence: Edwin Hubble and others observed distant galaxies are all receding from us in every direction.
     
     Of course, alternative explanations were offered for that observation, as in any good scientific situation. Let's look at another prediction that came after more was understood about nuclear forces.
     
     2. Light nuclei - Hydrogen and Helium, and likely also Lithium - should all have been formed early in the universe, when it was still hot, and the ratios of those in the universe "locked in" when it cooled sufficiently.
     
     3. Because the universe became electrically neutral and light was no longer trapped, the universe should be filled in all directions with light from the early universe.
     Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) repeated this.
   • Stephen Sekula (steve@chirp.cooleysekula.net)'s status on Wednesday, 01-Feb-2017 22:47:52 UTC Stephen Sekula

     in reply to

     • Axe Man
     So, were those predictions verified? Yes. The light from the early universe was detected as microwaves in the 1960s, quite by accident. The properties of the microwave energy, measured very well in the early 1990s, corresponded to a universe with an average temperature of just about 3K.
     
     The relative abundance of Hydrogen and Helium is highly consistent with the predictions from "nucleosynthesis" in the 1950s-1960s.
     
     These are just a few things, fairly approachable observations. There are a number of more esoteric things. If you have an old cathode ray tube TV that gets analog stations and you tune it to a station that doesn't come in (in the US, that's all of them now), and turn the brightness down until you can barely see snow on the screen, about 1-in-100 of those flecks of snow is a photon left over from the early universe, cooled by its expansion, striking the antenna of the TV and making a speck on the screen.
     Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) repeated this.
   • Stephen Sekula (steve@chirp.cooleysekula.net)'s status on Wednesday, 01-Feb-2017 22:57:45 UTC Stephen Sekula

     in reply to

     • Axe Man
     That book relies on a wrong model for the speed of light. The author argues that you can assume that the speed of a source of light is added to the motion of light itself, increasing its speed. This flies in the face of evidence accumulated since the Michelson-Morley Experiments in the late 1880s, that demonstrated that the speed of light is independent of the motion of the source. All observers measure the speed of light to be the same, constant value, regardless of relative velocity. This is why you should be very careful about content lying around on the internet - you never know who wrote it or whether or not they understand basic observations about the universe around us. I hope this helps you be a bit more careful about choosing sources.
     Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) and @mcscx@quitter.se like this.
     Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) repeated this.
   • Former Bob Jonkman -- Please use the new server at https://gs.jonkman.ca (bobjonkmanformer@sn.jonkman.ca)'s status on Wednesday, 01-Feb-2017 23:00:05 UTC Former Bob Jonkman -- Please use the new server at https://gs.jonkman.ca

     in reply to
     I love @Steve@chirp.cooleysekula.net's series of Physics-Lessons-in-a-Microblog
     Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) and @mcscx@quitter.se like this.
   • LinuxWalt (@lnxw48a1) {3EB165E0-5BB1-45D2-9E7D-93B31821F864} (lnxw48a1@nu.federati.net)'s status on Wednesday, 01-Feb-2017 23:07:31 UTC LinuxWalt (@lnxw48a1) {3EB165E0-5BB1-45D2-9E7D-93B31821F864}

     in reply to

     • Former Bob Jonkman -- Please use the new server at https://gs.jonkman.ca
     Can you imagine trying to express the ideas on a certain 140-character #corpocentric site? Yet another example of why the #fediverse is preferable.
     Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) repeated this.
   • Stephen Sekula (steve@chirp.cooleysekula.net)'s status on Wednesday, 01-Feb-2017 23:58:39 UTC Stephen Sekula

     in reply to

     • Former Bob Jonkman -- Please use the new server at https://gs.jonkman.ca
     @steve's, And, as you can imagine, it is difficult to do any kind of half-decent job in a format like this... especially since there are whole reliable textbooks devoted to the subject, so why bother with me. ;-) Anyway, I am trying but since I have other responsibilities in my life - a wife, a job, two cats, a book to write, three grad students to supervise, and MEETINGS! I am going to have to give this stuff a rest. I appreciate people are curious - if a bit confrontational in the way they choose to engage in the subject - but relying on only one person to talk about an entire subject is not fair to that person nor does it do the subject the proper justice.
     Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) and @mcscx@quitter.se like this.
     Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) repeated this.
   • Stephen Sekula (steve@chirp.cooleysekula.net)'s status on Thursday, 02-Feb-2017 00:05:40 UTC Stephen Sekula

     in reply to

     • Axe Man
     • Kaiser©®™
     @axemansays, Einstein was Jewish, though not particularly devout; that's why he fled Nazi Germany in 1933 - the purge of "Jewish Academics" put his life at risk and he was brought to the US by colleagues at Princeton, where he remained the rest of his days. He actually refuted the big bang idea at the beginning because he felt it smacked too much of Biblical theology, but changed his mind when presented with Hubble's observations. He didn't like quantum mechanics because it allows definite predictions of all possible outcomes but no way to determine which outcome will happen with absolute certainty in a specific atomic process, and he never did get comfortable with that reality revealed by experiment (that atomic behavior is not deterministic). Einstein had many mistakes in his career, as do all scientists; the key was that there were other physicists around who learned from his mistakes and had new insights as a result. Thus is science a process.
     Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) likes this.
     Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) repeated this.
   • Axe Man (axemansays@sealion.club)'s status on Thursday, 02-Feb-2017 01:00:47 UTC Axe Man

     in reply to
     @steve baseless speculation invented by a Catholic priest with no evidence other than the questionable interpretation of the red shift, which Hubble himself made no hypothesis to explain, his pupil Halton Arp has found differing red shifts in closely located bodies, invalidating the big bang completely.
   • Stephen Michael Kellat (alpacaherder@quitter.se)'s status on Thursday, 02-Feb-2017 01:01:56 UTC Stephen Michael Kellat

     in reply to

     • LinuxWalt (@lnxw48a1) {3EB165E0-5BB1-45D2-9E7D-93B31821F864}
     @lnxw48a1 My eyes crossed there & I thought you wrote "coprocentric"... #LongDay
     Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) likes this.
     Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) repeated this.
   • LinuxWalt (@lnxw48a1) {3EB165E0-5BB1-45D2-9E7D-93B31821F864} (lnxw48a1@nu.federati.net)'s status on Thursday, 02-Feb-2017 01:10:42 UTC LinuxWalt (@lnxw48a1) {3EB165E0-5BB1-45D2-9E7D-93B31821F864}

     in reply to

     • Stephen Michael Kellat
     Oh, fiber cures that. :-)
     Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) repeated this.
   • Axe Man (axemansays@sealion.club)'s status on Thursday, 02-Feb-2017 01:10:56 UTC Axe Man

     in reply to
     @steve you are an idiot kill yourself, Hubble discovered the red shift, not that galaxies are receeding, he made no hypothesis to explain the observation. 
     
     Piss off with your smug, self righteous, patronising bullshit, you don't know what you are talking about.
   • Axe Man (axemansays@sealion.club)'s status on Thursday, 02-Feb-2017 01:14:27 UTC Axe Man

     in reply to
     @steve OH you are such a moron , The CMB experiment failed to find the predicted temperature, and can be explained in many other ways, and the data was massaged to get the pictures promoted as evidence of the big bang.
     
     The margins of error of the experiment are greater than the data it claims proves the Big bang. 
     
     Nonsense.
   • Axe Man (axemansays@sealion.club)'s status on Thursday, 02-Feb-2017 01:16:07 UTC Axe Man

     in reply to
     @steve the null result of the MM experiment does not prove Einstain correct.
     
     It has not been repeated conclusively in 100 years either.
   • Axe Man (axemansays@sealion.club)'s status on Thursday, 02-Feb-2017 01:19:13 UTC Axe Man

     in reply to

     • Kaiser©®™
     @steve @dogjaw So you repeat this propaganda bullshit to yourself to convince yourself really don't you?., deep down you know it's bullshit.
     Kaiser©®™ likes this.
   • Axe Man (axemansays@sealion.club)'s status on Thursday, 02-Feb-2017 01:30:48 UTC Axe Man

     in reply to

     • Kaiser©®™
     @steve @dogjaw Mr Dunning and Mr Kruger did some real science that applies to you and that you really should be aware of.
   • Axe Man (axemansays@sealion.club)'s status on Thursday, 02-Feb-2017 01:34:44 UTC Axe Man

     in reply to

     • Kaiser©®™
     @steve @dogjaw Yes Einstain was a filthy lying kike, along with Marx and Freud,  responsible for the destruction of our culture and society with their sick poisonous ideas.
   • Stephen Sekula (steve@chirp.cooleysekula.net)'s status on Thursday, 02-Feb-2017 03:12:13 UTC Stephen Sekula

     in reply to

     • Axe Man
     Since you have crossed the line into anti-semitic commentary and have decided to revert to terrible name-calling, I'm done talking with you. Stay off my GS feed.
   • Axe Man (axemansays@sealion.club)'s status on Thursday, 02-Feb-2017 04:30:35 UTC Axe Man

     in reply to
     @steve Oy Vey, it's anuddah shoa.
   • Axe Man (axemansays@sealion.club)'s status on Thursday, 02-Feb-2017 04:41:31 UTC Axe Man

     in reply to
     @steve Oh and BTW, I'm not at all anti-semitic, I have deep sympathy for the suffering of Palestinians who are semitic, at the hands of mostly non semitic Jewish invaders.
     
     I do however dislike Jews intensely, because of what they do.
   • Alexander (glsk@quitter.se)'s status on Thursday, 02-Feb-2017 05:01:03 UTC Alexander

     in reply to
     @steve I admire your patience and pedagogical skills in this thread.
     Stephen Sekula and @mcscx@quitter.se like this.