@bob @natecull this talks to this subject https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUCYoJ8KSF8

@aral ok that's fine as far as it goes.

How does "society" fit into this view, we are social creatures who cannot survive let alone start to flourish with out community as the bases of our biology. We are not the isalated individual you modal, think you understand this.

We can only exist in a world built on "trust" how can we trust individuals that don't leave a trail of social clues, that's data/metadata in tech view, the is social value drips from this opendata?

@aral

Am thinking the problem is in the #mainstreaming outreach expression.

Where you are actually building tools for people to balance their private/public lives, which is a good.

Maybe you could express this more?

@aral OK that is the understanding of the "self" in capitalism so common sense. What does the self look like from a more communitarian view? Data has power, isolating this data to the individual is a perfect fit for neoliberalism.

Am not saying you have not though outside this box, but would like more public facing info on such thinking, what can data "commons" do for society and how can we think about this #4opens i would like to see more of.

@aral

Have you though that this view is a perfect fit for neoliberalism and thus might be anti-human in some ways.

We are messy and only live when we know each other, trust is the nebulous building block of life and this "trust" is mostly built from "opendata".

I can see where you are going, and a balance of "privacy" is also human.

My reaction a healthy society is a fine balance of open/closed, we need open social actions to build trust and closed private life to be "individuals".

@aral I feel this is little understanding of non-capitalist economics in this list. Have you thought what data is used for in different economic systems?

If we build only in reaction to one economic syteam, that we are quite likely to walk away from in the next 10-20 years, then we are not actually building the future. instead we are defending the past.

We used to do games and applications for QL and Atari ST back in the day. Media apps and data link syteams, past lives 🙂

3d slime, golf, jspace and stech if I remember right. Think 3dslime was the best seller.

Made by the 3 Campbell brothers

The low level coding was done by Angus Campbell the high-level coding and design by Tom Campbell and I think I animated the slime and some of the layouts. Then I did all the distribution, publicity and sales. It was an interesting time.

@jens can you give me an example of this please.

An Indymedia Reboot

"It's taking power out of private property and putting it into the commons"

An openweb news and archiving project.

Based on the #4opens

Open data

Open source

Open “industrial” standards

Open process

The #OMN process is based on experience of why the IMC project failed.

Basic stuff, am talking about tech from the prospective of politics "All code is ideology solidified into action – most contemporary code is capitalism, this is hardly a surprise if you think about this for a moment."