@eject unsure, lmk when you figure it out tho

@cjd @gargron @lain Aha... you may be right, I might have misunderstood the term "utility token"?

@gargron @lerk 🅱️ aid hosting

@cjd @gargron @lain I'll argue again that blockchains haven't succeeded where you're claiming, and I believe I know that because I'm close to several people who work on blockchains.

a) https://www.coindesk.com/new-irs-warning-letters-target-crypto-investors-who-misreported-trades
b) the people I know who are working on blockchains are being careful to distinguish between tokens that are primarily for a "useful purpose" (eg filecoin) vs ones that are meant to be money exactly for financial oversight reasons

@gargron @lain I honestly wonder how hard GNU Taler would be to hook into the fediverse as a quick proof-of-concept. No idea... I've run the demo but admittedly never looked at how it worked.

I anticipate that the first major stamps system to hit the fediverse will have a weird fedimeme attached to it but I'm not sure what it will 🅱️ e

@waifu wow you're REALLY anticipating my keynote now ;)

@waifu Video will be up soon enough

@karen @waifu Sorry to hear about the social anxiety. It wasn't obvious!

I thought you were a great APConf participant and was thrilled to get to meet you IRL :)

@waifu Well as I said in my keynote, a lot of ocap ideas come from games :)

@gargron @lain why did I say "untradeable stamps", obviously I meant tradeable

@gargron @lain Anyway, NO blockchain involved, NO proof of work necessary. Transaction times are small and fast. It does mean "trusting" the digicash bank, but that's why it's important to have an open market and let anyone trade the stamps; eventually, some reasonably well trusted stamp providers will emerge.

And... this lets us open up a path towards an alternative to Facebook Libra and Weechat that's actually respectful of user freedoms and individual autonomy.

@gargron @lain So those last two (buying is anonymous but selling is not) are highly interesting. You *could* set up the Digicash ~bank to operate in an anonymous manner, it's kind of a choice (I won't explain that fully here), but that means two paths open up:

- "legit, by the books" currencies which actually are fully taxable
- more IOU-like per-community tradeable token systems (which, of course people will trade for real money, but...)

@gargron @lain So how to build it? Two paths: the ocap folks demonstrated you can make "money" basically from ocaps alone (see "simple money" on http://erights.org/elib/capability/ode/ode-capabilities.html )

But, that doesn't provide all the properties we want, even though it is easy to make and issue them.