Conversation

Notices

1. MMN-o ✅⃠ (mmn@social.umeahackerspace.se)'s status on Wednesday, 09-Mar-2016 10:17:19 UTC MMN-o ✅⃠

   • Discuss Thang
   The point was that it is gratis in F-Droid and then you can donate some other way .)
   • MMN-o ✅⃠ (mmn@social.umeahackerspace.se)'s status on Wednesday, 09-Mar-2016 10:27:28 UTC MMN-o ✅⃠

     • Discuss Thang
     @discussthang It's not obvious that you mean gratis if you say "free".
   • MMN-o ✅⃠ (mmn@social.umeahackerspace.se)'s status on Wednesday, 09-Mar-2016 10:40:23 UTC MMN-o ✅⃠

     • Discuss Thang
     @discussthang Then I guess you haven't taken part of the larger discussion of libre software, where most people think "free" means free as in beer - but it's important to stress that free software - libre software - is free as in freedom.
     
     Whenever someone says "free" - regardless of topic - I prefer it if they express themselves more explicitly.
     Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) repeated this.
   • Discuss Thang (discussthang@gnus.wideweb.me)'s status on Wednesday, 09-Mar-2016 10:55:01 UTC Discuss Thang

     in reply to
     @mmn But I said I got your meaning. As an XS4ALL oldie I took part in that discussion when I still helpt develop such shit as SMTP and other protocols by participating on IETF discussions a long time ago. Fact is, free software is a illusion. All you might get is free (as in ffing public domain, no license whatsoever, source code. After that it becomes foggy rapidly. So being explicit about fog is like being to decribe explicitly how a strawberry tastes. My 2 pence.
     Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) repeated this.
   • MMN-o ✅⃠ (mmn@social.umeahackerspace.se)'s status on Wednesday, 09-Mar-2016 11:01:51 UTC MMN-o ✅⃠

     • Discuss Thang
     @discussthang I think the software I run on my machine is pretty darn real. And to the point where anyone can tell, the source is available. And the license says I am free to do what I want with it.
     
     I'm not sure what you mean by "illusion". Libre licenses are enforced all the time, all over the world. Success rate is probably the same as with fighting piracy, most people get away with it, but it's still a very real-world phenomenon and it's shaping the industry.
     Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) likes this.
     Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) repeated this.
   • Discuss Thang (discussthang@gnus.wideweb.me)'s status on Wednesday, 09-Mar-2016 11:13:52 UTC Discuss Thang

     in reply to
     @mmn My point is, if it has a license it is not free. How hard is that to understand really?
     Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) repeated this.
   • MMN-o ✅⃠ (mmn@social.umeahackerspace.se)'s status on Wednesday, 09-Mar-2016 11:22:50 UTC MMN-o ✅⃠

     • Free and Open Source Software
     • Discuss Thang
     @discussthang Well being a !foss copyleftist, I simply argue that the "freedom" to _keep something to yourself_ (i.e. source modifications) is not freedom, but tyranny! ;)
   • MMN-o ✅⃠ (mmn@social.umeahackerspace.se)'s status on Wednesday, 09-Mar-2016 11:49:14 UTC MMN-o ✅⃠

     • Discuss Thang
     @discussthang It's not a logical fallacy if we refer to different definitions of a word's meaning. Then it's just different interpretations, not wildly differing logic.
   • Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) (clackemovedtoheldscalla@quitter.se)'s status on Thursday, 07-Apr-2016 02:16:12 UTC Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠)

     in reply to

     • Discuss Thang
     @discussthang @mmn If you live in a society that enforces intellectual monopoly you aren't free. License makes exceptions to that monopoly.
   • lnxw48 (Linux Walt) (lnxw48@fresh.federati.net)'s status on Thursday, 07-Apr-2016 03:26:46 UTC lnxw48 (Linux Walt)

     in reply to

     • Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠)
     • David Benfell
     • Discuss Thang
     @clacke @mmn @discussthang @benfell I agree. Furthermore, since only the license allows you to view / listen / read / copy, a copyleft license both grants and protects end-users' limited freedom, while other licenses merely grant limited freedom, while allowing downstream entities to take back some of that already limited freedom.
     
     This is a real-world consequence of living under governments that enforce copyrights. No license means no rights, and therefore, no freedoms.
     Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) likes this.
     Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) repeated this.
   • Discuss Thang (discussthang@gnus.wideweb.me)'s status on Thursday, 07-Apr-2016 04:51:26 UTC Discuss Thang

     in reply to

     • Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠)
     • lnxw48 (Linux Walt)
     • David Benfell
     @lnxw48 @mmn @benfell @clacke See what happens, from freedom now we are suddenly talking about limited freedom. What better proof for my point.
     Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) repeated this.
   • Discuss Thang (discussthang@gnus.wideweb.me)'s status on Thursday, 07-Apr-2016 08:10:23 UTC Discuss Thang

     • David Benfell
     @benfell I dont see what was wrong with good ol’ public domain in the first place. If you want to restrict THEN use a license. If not then public domain. This whole license thing is just one big scheme feeding the copyright trolls.
     Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) repeated this.
   • Jookia (jookia@quitter.se)'s status on Thursday, 07-Apr-2016 10:00:07 UTC Jookia

     • David Benfell
     • Discuss Thang
     @discussthang @benfell Unfortunately releasing software in to the public domain isn't as easy as it sounds, which is why we have CC0.
     Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) repeated this.
   • Discuss Thang (discussthang@gnus.wideweb.me)'s status on Thursday, 07-Apr-2016 10:06:41 UTC Discuss Thang

     in reply to

     • David Benfell
     • Jookia
     @jookia What a heap of bull. I write a readme. State everyone can do with it as he/she pleases. And sayonara. If for any reason people think they need some false security by a written and signed statement from me they can contact me and fork over some serious compensation for my effort.  @benfell
     Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) repeated this.
   • Discuss Thang (discussthang@gnus.wideweb.me)'s status on Thursday, 07-Apr-2016 10:07:37 UTC Discuss Thang

     • David Benfell
     • Jookia
     @jookia See my previous answer, that beside the fact that an author like that has a serious mental problem. But then again 90% of earth population has. @benfell
     Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) repeated this.
   • Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) (clackemovedtoheldscalla@quitter.se)'s status on Thursday, 07-Apr-2016 12:16:24 UTC Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠)

     in reply to

     • David Benfell
     • Jookia
     • Discuss Thang
     @discussthang @jookia @benfell Then your readme is a license, like the WTFPL.
     Moving (some day) To Federati...can no longer change usernames likes this.
   • Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) (clackemovedtoheldscalla@quitter.se)'s status on Thursday, 07-Apr-2016 12:17:01 UTC Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠)

     in reply to

     • David Benfell
     • Jookia
     • Discuss Thang
     @discussthang @jookia @benfell They weren't saying the author will sue anyone, just it's impossible for the author to waive that privilege.
   • Discuss Thang (discussthang@gnus.wideweb.me)'s status on Thursday, 07-Apr-2016 13:21:37 UTC Discuss Thang

     • David Benfell
     • Bob Mottram
     @bob I am slowly getting to the point where I suspect a conspiracy to intentionally miss my point. https://gnus.wideweb.me/notice/62789 @benfell
     Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) repeated this.
   • Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) (clackemovedtoheldscalla@quitter.se)'s status on Thursday, 07-Apr-2016 13:31:09 UTC Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠)

     in reply to

     • David Benfell
     • Bob Mottram
     • Discuss Thang
     @discussthang @benfell @bob You are having the same semantics conflict with the people in this discussion as Mike McGirvin once had.
   • Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) (clackemovedtoheldscalla@quitter.se)'s status on Thursday, 07-Apr-2016 13:33:43 UTC Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠)

     in reply to

     • David Benfell
     • Bob Mottram
     • Discuss Thang
     @discussthang @benfell @bob A license is a non-/conditional waiver of copyright, which by law is automatic and by default reserved.
   • David Benfell (benfell@cybernude.org)'s status on Thursday, 07-Apr-2016 18:46:41 UTC David Benfell

     • Jookia
     I'm not sure what you mean by "moral rights." Do you mean "natural law" and "natural right" (yes, singular, for reasons that are a mystery to me)? If so, natural law has largely been displaced in favor of written law over a period of centuries, even in the English precedents to the U.S. system.
     Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) repeated this.
   • Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) (clackemovedtoheldscalla@quitter.se)'s status on Friday, 08-Apr-2016 06:08:24 UTC Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠)

     in reply to

     • David Benfell
     • Jookia
     @benfell @jookia "moral rights" is a legal term in French copyright and its derivatives, as opposed to "financial rights".
   • Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) (clackemovedtoheldscalla@quitter.se)'s status on Friday, 08-Apr-2016 06:12:16 UTC Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠)

     in reply to

     • David Benfell
     • Jookia
     @benfell @jookia Can waive or transfer the right to royalties, but can always sue for e.g. use infringing on the work's artistic integrity.
   • MMN-o ✅⃠ (mmn@social.umeahackerspace.se)'s status on Friday, 08-Apr-2016 08:09:35 UTC MMN-o ✅⃠

     • Björn Schießle
     • Marcus
     @bes @marcus Yeah, freedom is more about being able to change whatever rules exist in a respectful manner or otherwisw leave the rule bubble you're in to go somewhere else.
   • Moving (some day) To Federati...can no longer change usernames (daw@micro.fragdev.com)'s status on Tuesday, 12-Apr-2016 00:35:05 UTC Moving (some day) To Federati...can no longer change usernames

     • David Benfell
     I see this was more-or-less answered, but: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_rights -- and the US does have moral rights, they just lie in trademark/privacy rights. Also, in VARA, but that is super-limited. No, I am not a practicing attorney, but I do have a JD, and additional training in IP under primarily the US system.