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1. Phoenix R&D (phoenix_r_d@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 07-Sep-2024 06:12:51 UTC Phoenix R&D

   We are growing and #hiring a full-time and a freelance Senior Rust Engineer to help us build the next generation of private & secure messaging.
   The new Messaging Layer Security (MLS) protocol is at the core of our work. We are building a modern messaging application and technology stack based for a range of target groups.
   If you’re interested in joining our team, please apply today!

   For friends of secure messaging 🥷, please share our post with potential candidates.
   https://join.com/companies/phoenix

   • Phoenix R&D (phoenix_r_d@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 07-Sep-2024 06:12:56 UTC Phoenix R&D

     in reply to

     • Buster | Felipe

     @pitbuster Yes, we are open to candidates from outside the EU. Our only requirement is that you live in a place that is compatible with meetings during European working hours.

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   • Buster | Felipe (pitbuster@lile.cl)'s status on Saturday, 07-Sep-2024 06:13:00 UTC Buster | Felipe

     in reply to

     @phoenix_r_d Are you open to non-EU candidates?

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   • Raphael Robert (raphaelrobert@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 07-Sep-2024 06:13:04 UTC Raphael Robert

     in reply to

     • Krille-chan

     @krille @phoenix_r_d That’s why we helped start the IETF MIMI working group to get everyone around the table

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   • Krille-chan (krille@troet.cafe)'s status on Saturday, 07-Sep-2024 06:13:10 UTC Krille-chan

     in reply to

     @phoenix_r_d yet another chat protocol 🙄 reminds me of: https://xkcd.com/927/

   • Krille-chan (krille@troet.cafe)'s status on Saturday, 07-Sep-2024 06:13:12 UTC Krille-chan

     in reply to

     • Raphael Robert

     @raphaelrobert @phoenix_r_d That solves the federation-problem but let me guess you are going to implement a new c2s protocol instead of using Matrix, XMPP or whatever we already have?

   • Raphael Robert (raphaelrobert@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 07-Sep-2024 06:13:12 UTC Raphael Robert

     in reply to

     • Krille-chan

     @krille @phoenix_r_d Yes, neither the matrix protocol nor XMPP protect metadata well enough unfortunately.

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   • Krille-chan (krille@troet.cafe)'s status on Saturday, 07-Sep-2024 06:13:14 UTC Krille-chan

     in reply to

     • Raphael Robert

     @raphaelrobert @phoenix_r_d or help xmpp. At its core it is very minimal and flexible. You can invent new ways there to hide metadata, share it with the community, write XEPs and try to help everyone, adopting it.

     There ARE opportunities here. Of course starting from scratch makes more fun, but in the end you will run into the same walls, the others already ran again. Then you are forced to do compromises. And others will say, that you did bad decisions and they need to start from scratch

   • Raphael Robert (raphaelrobert@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 07-Sep-2024 06:13:14 UTC Raphael Robert

     in reply to

     • Krille-chan

     @krille @phoenix_r_d We've been having extensive discussions about this in various IETF groups, with both Matrix and XMPP folks. We are very open to either adhering to existing standards or helping shape new ones. Sometimes you have to start fresh though, that's exactly what we did with MLS and MIMI. I don't see why this couldn't be repeated for s c2s protocol. Either way, join the working groups and propose your ideas!

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   • Krille-chan (krille@troet.cafe)'s status on Saturday, 07-Sep-2024 06:13:15 UTC Krille-chan

     in reply to

     • Raphael Robert

     @raphaelrobert @phoenix_r_d

     I knew it. 🙄 the typical story: you think you can do it better than everyone else. Increase fragmentation instead of improving what already is available. Spoiler: everyone is thinking the same and in the end you will re-invent the weel over and over again instead of bringing us forward.

     If you want to hide metadata, just help Matrix with encrypted state events.

     If you want MLS, help Matrix with their shift to it (already planned but lacks resources)

   • Lutin Discret (lutindiscret@mastodon.libre-entreprise.com)'s status on Saturday, 07-Sep-2024 06:13:17 UTC Lutin Discret

     in reply to

     • Delta Chat
     • Raphael Robert

     Hi @delta

     I wanted to be sure you are aware there are now multiple project to implement MLS in Rust. @raphaelrobert is working on OpenMLS at @phoenix_r_d. It's being adopted to implement DM in #nostr by @1739d937dc8c0c7370aa27585938c119e25c41f6c441a5d34c6d38503e3136ef

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   • Lutin Discret (lutindiscret@mastodon.libre-entreprise.com)'s status on Saturday, 07-Sep-2024 06:13:18 UTC Lutin Discret

     in reply to

     • Raphael Robert

     @raphaelrobert you picked my interest, I will keep an eye on this.

   • Delta Chat (delta@chaos.social)'s status on Saturday, 07-Sep-2024 06:13:22 UTC Delta Chat

     in reply to

     • Lutin Discret
     • Raphael Robert

     @lutindiscret @raphaelrobert @phoenix_r_d @1739d937dc8c0c7370aa27585938c119e25c41f6c441a5d34c6d38503e3136ef thanks for the pointer, and looking forward to see what comes out of the OpenMLS rust developments. We presume however it's not yet easy to use it in decentralized settings where group-membership is not strictly ordered. Or did that restriction change?

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   • Raphael Robert (raphaelrobert@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 07-Sep-2024 07:24:42 UTC Raphael Robert

     in reply to

     • Krille-chan
     • silverpill

     @krille @silverpill @phoenix_r_d Not sure what you mean. Substantial parts of the MIMI protocol have been proposed by US, the matrix folks and the Wire folks. The IETF process is very transparent. Anyone can participate, either by just observing or actively contributing. All decisions and discussions are written down. That makes it easy to debunk false claims like yours :)

     Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅 likes this.
   • Krille-chan (krille@troet.cafe)'s status on Saturday, 07-Sep-2024 07:24:43 UTC Krille-chan

     in reply to

     • Raphael Robert
     • silverpill

     @silverpill @raphaelrobert @phoenix_r_d mimi is not from the open source community but from the big vendors like Meta or Google. Don't expect something like activitypub from it 😝

   • silverpill (silverpill@mitra.social)'s status on Saturday, 07-Sep-2024 07:24:48 UTC silverpill

     in reply to

     • Raphael Robert
     • Krille-chan

     @raphaelrobert @phoenix_r_d @krille Is ActivityPub still being considered for MIMI?

     https://bifurcation.github.io/mimi-aim/draft-barnes-mimi-aim.html

     It is a mature and widely used standard, but at the same time it's a blank slate because it doesn't have e2ee layer yet. Seems like a perfect foundation for developing a next generation of private & secure messaging.