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1. Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Jun-2022 00:38:36 UTC Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
   I have a question: Does AGPL holds on kiosk machines?
   
   Like asking for the source on something which is a ticket vending machine.
   Or asking for the source on one you're typically using-by-proxy like a cashier.
   • Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅 (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Jun-2022 00:38:35 UTC Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅

     in reply to
     @lanodan "all users interacting with it remotely through a computer network"
   • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Jun-2022 00:45:07 UTC Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     in reply to
     For people wondering why the hell I care: While I can choose whatever software runs on my own machines, for other people's machines I'm doomed.
     And sometimes you're quite expected to give them private/sensitive data.
     
     (GDPR is a thing but I feel that compared to copyright, it's still a bit of a joke when enforcing comes into play)
     Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅 likes this.
   • Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅 (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Jun-2022 04:33:32 UTC Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅

     in reply to

     • I stand with :kekistan:
     @sjw @lanodan The SSPL is about users that talk to services that manage the software under license, and the source code to those services.
     
     In practice it's not about user rights, it's defense of business model.
   • I stand with :kekistan: (sjw@bae.st)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Jun-2022 04:33:37 UTC I stand with :kekistan:

     in reply to
     @lanodan isn't this kind of why MongoDB switches from AGPL to SSPL?
     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Server_Side_Public_License
   • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Jun-2022 04:33:38 UTC Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     in reply to

     • I stand with :kekistan:
     @sjw You forgot the A of AGPL.
     
     Like I don't own baest but I can ask for the source code of your instance :D
     
     And there is few weird cases of GPL enforcement on ~rented/lent machines like ISP routers.
   • I stand with :kekistan: (sjw@bae.st)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Jun-2022 04:33:39 UTC I stand with :kekistan:

     in reply to
     @lanodan I don't think so. They still own the machine and the code. They're just giving you permission to use the machine. They're not giving you the actual machine or software.
   • Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅 (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Jun-2022 05:22:58 UTC Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅

     in reply to

     • I stand with :kekistan:
     @lanodan @sjw The AGPL is borderline already for qualifying the freedom of use, freedom zero, on the covered code.
     
     SSPL further qualifies the right of use and even leverages it to put conditions on code that is not a derivative and not covered by the license.
   • I stand with :kekistan: (sjw@bae.st)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Jun-2022 05:23:00 UTC I stand with :kekistan:

     in reply to

     • Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅
     @lanodan @clacke how exactly is it not open source tho? That article doesn't do a good job at explaining it.
   • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Jun-2022 05:23:00 UTC Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     in reply to

     • Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅
     • I stand with :kekistan:
     @sjw @clacke I think the problem is effectively that it restricts on the field of endeavor, which is a highly protected thing in OSI and DSFG.
     
     I guess it might not break the four freedoms though.
   • I stand with :kekistan: (sjw@bae.st)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Jun-2022 05:23:01 UTC I stand with :kekistan:

     in reply to

     • Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅
     @clacke @lanodan eh I guess but shouldn't everything be open source?
   • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Jun-2022 05:23:01 UTC Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     in reply to

     • Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅
     • I stand with :kekistan:
     @sjw @clacke "open source" is defined by OSI, which threw it away: https://opensource.org/node/1099
   • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Jun-2022 05:35:47 UTC Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     in reply to

     • Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅
     • I stand with :kekistan:
     @sjw @clacke Nah, with SSPL, if Pleroma would use MongoDB we would have to ask every contributor ever if they're okay with a relicensing or drop MongoDB.
     MissKey moved to PostgreSQL.
     We probably also would have to drop any dependency under the GPL, if there is any.
     
     And MongoDB is also a thing that's probably not packagable in a distro as you probably would end up having to license the distro under SSPL.
     
     People often dislike how the GPL is viral, but at least it's virality is when there is a direct software link.
     AGPL just adds the ability for remote users to ask for source code.
     SSPL is network virality and that's basically a worm.
     Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅 likes this.
   • I stand with :kekistan: (sjw@bae.st)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Jun-2022 05:35:48 UTC I stand with :kekistan:

     in reply to

     • Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅
     @lanodan @clacke only people like Google and Amazon get butthurt
   • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Jun-2022 05:35:49 UTC Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     in reply to

     • Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅
     • I stand with :kekistan:
     @sjw @clacke In fact I would say that libre licenses, specially copyleft ones, reason for being are to avoid being butthurt later on.
     
     I think being a slight pain in the butt to some others is a side-effect, not the primary purpose.
   • I stand with :kekistan: (sjw@bae.st)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Jun-2022 05:35:50 UTC I stand with :kekistan:

     in reply to

     • Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅
     @lanodan @clacke it just makes all the companies with all the money butthurt so it's magically not an open source licence and is "proprietary" somehow because they said so for no suspicious reasons at all
   • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Jun-2022 05:35:50 UTC Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     in reply to

     • Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅
     • I stand with :kekistan:
     @sjw @clacke Proprietary software also makes people butthurt.
     
     Butthurt isn't the point of any libre licences.
   • Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅 (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Jun-2022 05:44:41 UTC Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅

     in reply to

     • I stand with :kekistan:
     @lanodan @sjw It's a bit more discriminate than that, the software they put conditions on is software that makes the "functionality [ . . . ] available [ . . . ] as a service". It does propagate itself this way though.
     
     They tried to skirt as close to Open Source as they could and pinpoint exactly those offerings that Google and Amazon provide.
     
     There is so much software out there though and so many database implementations in particular, so there is no reason to use or contribute to the ones with quirky non-free licenses and no distro support.