Kev Quirk ๐บ๐ฆ
This is what's wrong with the tech industry. The expectation that one should give their free time *EVERY DAY* or you're somehow "not passionate".
My response to that would be fuck you and your shitty fucking culture.
My kids and family are FAR more important to me than your ridiculous expectations.
</rant> ๐
๐Undead Bill๐
I hate questions like that. Some employers make you sign IP agreements that make anything you do on your own time property of that company, and have a gag order associated with it.
Obviously, even if I had been "programming at home for fun", I wouldn't be able to admit to it.
He can heck off on his high horse.
Robbie ๐ง๐ช
@kev Why was he giving interviews when he could have been programming? ๐
Santa Claes ๐ธ๐ช๐ญ๐ฐ๐
swansinflight :antiverified:
@kev
"Why do you enjoy this career"
Because I like the things that being paid money allows me to do.
Not everyone is John Carmack.
Michael :mastodon:
@kev I wonder how a surgeon would apply this advice. Would Bob accept them spending the evenings piercing and tatooing their family? Or would he insist on full surgery?
Pheonix
@kev Who is their ideal candidate?
The one who "grinds all day" AKA is all about that 24x7 work lifestyle?
My guess : It's an unmarried male, preferably below 35 with no hobbies, extracurriculars, social life, addiction. He prefers to stay back after work, underpromises and over-performs and does your work for you at 1/4 the market salary? Did I check all the boxes?
Mek101
@kev I'm passionate, just not about making you money
Basil
@kev
Company in a job advert: we're looking for code ninjas who live and breathe code. If you aren't at the office writing code, you're at home writing code or in the shower thinking about code. Does this sound like you? Apply today.
Also company: why is it we only get applications from young men?
Minutes to Midnight
@kev that's what happened to me twenty years ago when I started working in the game industry. As soon as I'd decided to stop being there 24/7 I got labeled as 'not passionate anymore' and ostracized. I left the company.
รtienne
@kev @raboof @kev about original poster: tell me you are in a high position in a game company without telling you are...
Most people in the game industry don't have time to do side project because they are working overhours, consequence of tight schedules and mismanagement. Time is a luxury, and when you are exhausted, this fun project you do at home start to look not so fun.
He might have time to kill, but people working under him likely don't.
Sexy Moon
Kev Quirk ๐บ๐ฆ
@jomo @lubiana nah, it's legit:
https://nitter.net/BlizzardFitch/status/1276396751516168192#m
Philipp-Harald Rack
@kev @lubiana is this a fake screenshot?
https://twitter.com/BlizzardFitch/status/1276270183464624128
Santa Claes ๐ธ๐ช๐ญ๐ฐ๐
hansenerd
@kev I've asked this in interviews at the workshop for 30 years: What do you build at home? Many answer they don't have time. Wrong. If you don't have the passion to woodwork 24/7, being a carpenter isn't for you.
๐คฎ
Santa Claes ๐ธ๐ช๐ญ๐ฐ๐
Matt Pearce
@kev I briefly worked at a games company who had never done "crunch" before, and ended up on a disastrous project that was way behind schedule. They insisted we shift to a 60-hour week (with no extra pay), just before Christmas. Needless to say, I resigned.
In my exit interview, the CTO tried to convince me it was a *privilege* to work through crunch periods, and a bonus of working for a games company.
Tattooed_ Mummy
@kev I'm now just thinking about this in other industries..."How often do you sell apples at home?" "How often do you intubate people at home?" "How often do you plaster ceilings at home?"
verbumfeit
@kev You are notpassionate enough to be burnt out by us, try harder.
Gergely Nagy ๐
@kev I wonder if they'd be upset if their dentist didn't practice at home, drilling teeth every day to maintain their passion for their craft. Or perhaps they want firemen putting out fires at home too, to maintain their passion? What if there's no fire? Should they start one?
:flan_facepalm:
Santa Claes ๐ธ๐ช๐ญ๐ฐ๐
glyn
@kev Agreed. I worked 37 hours a week for decades, with no time for side projects because I have a wife and children. I always made this clear to a new manager. Never seemed to get in the way of promotions, interesting work, etc. I think you need to rest to be productive.
Kev Quirk ๐บ๐ฆ
@underlap same here. The first conversation I always have is around my commitment to work:life balance.
Hasnโt been a problem so far, but thatโs down to culture. I think Iโm lucky that were I work has a great culture.
fluffy ๐ โชโพฬซโช
@sotolf @rune @kev in my experience indie devs are even worse about this though, like if you arenโt giving 1000% to your personal project in addition to working a day job so that you can pay rent (or somehow funding your project from savings or Kickstarter) then youโre also Doing It Wrong
Sotolf
@rune @kev I find more arguements for indie-games everywhere I look :D
Rune :BlobhajShock:
@kev somehow not surprising to find a toxic game dev employer take. That whole industry is trash fire.
fluffy ๐ โชโพฬซโช
@kev @PsyChuan also at so many tech jobs if you do it on your spare time the company lays claim to it so this attitude has layers of shittiness when it comes to insisting people work for free
Oliverโข
@kev I'm with you there, 105%! I am very passionate about my job the moment I work. Only when I work. Just then.
In my free time I use a computer sometimes to watch some flix or listen to some music when I don't have it on CD (yeah I'm that old). Or for Mastodon, more space than on the phone's screen ๐. That's basically it.
Life is life and work is work. You can be darn good at work without wasting all your life. ๐
RevFry
@kev It's interesting that you can work at Blizzard for 30 years and still clearly not be an experienced dev.
ุงูุชูููููุณ
@deadtom @kev having said that, being an IT professional is not wrong at all.
ุงูุชูููููุณ
@deadtom @kev there is a culture clash here. IT is devised in two groups. The first is computer enthusiast that happen to work in IT and the second is IT professionals. See it like a medical personnel. Would you ask them if they cure people outside work? Generally they don't but dome of them are so passionate they volunteer and offer help to people outside their working hours.
DeadTOm :dnd:
@kev I lived this way for about seven years, while working in IT for a large bank. At the time, I thought the pay justified the near complete lack of a non-work life.
When the recession came along, myself and more than half the IT department were shit-canned, outright fired under a new policy specially implemented for downsizing.
I now work in the non-profit sector, for dramatically less pay, but I love my job, and I'm much happier in general.
Fuck corporate culture.
Santa Claes ๐ธ๐ช๐ญ๐ฐ๐
Basil
@kev
It does seem that he was called out and he backpedaled on this pretty darn fast.
https://twitter.com/BlizzardFitch/status/1276270183464624128
glyn
@kev Having said all that, I've often woken up in the middle of the night when working on an interesting project and couldn't get back to sleep without writing down my thoughts about the design etc. So that was a kind of unpaid overtime.
glyn
@kev Same here. The culture in IBM and VMware was at least officially in favour of work-life balance. Surprisingly, the same was true of the start-up Interface21 (later called SpringSource) when I joined it. The phrases "family first" and "sustainable pace" helped to justify the approach.
Alastair Cooper
rmgr
@kev I mean I quite like programming and I usually have one or two weird programming projects on the go but every day? Jesus christ get a hobby.
Reis
@kev
What really gets me is "make small games". What are you supposed to make small games ABOUT?! You're not reading books, you're not going on walks, you're not playing a sport. What experience are you going to share and how are you conveying experiences if you don't make time to have them?
adb
@ReisAgainst @kev have you seen this games where you play games inside the game or games where you play by actually coding in some language? now you know from where they came
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