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Sandra (sandra@idiomdrottning.org)'s status on Thursday, 31-Mar-2022 13:14:09 UTC 
Sandra
How can the world move over to organic farming sustainably? Reading about the ΕrΔ« LaαΉ kΔ famine π -
Sandra (sandra@idiomdrottning.org)'s status on Thursday, 31-Mar-2022 13:14:05 UTC
Sandra
@strypey @selea I really hate patents and IP, and I hate the patents aspect of GMO so much that I'll even throw out the GMO baby with the patent bathwater. Proprietarization of the Earth is so blasphemous, it sickens me.
It is not a true fact that selection and reinforment in iterative algorithms can recreate all data structures that splicing algorithms can. Many have tried, with mediocre success.Santa Claes πΈπͺππ°π likes this. -
Strypey (strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz)'s status on Thursday, 31-Mar-2022 13:14:08 UTC 
Strypey
@selea There's nothing we can do with GM that we can't do with selective breeding, except call a plant an "invention". So GM and patents are to plants what proprietary licensing and copyright are to software. The only reason to do either is to turn public goods into private property.
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:debian: πππππ :fedora: (selea@social.linux.pizza)'s status on Thursday, 31-Mar-2022 13:14:09 UTC
:debian: πππππ :fedora:
We have to define "organic farming" - some claims that using GMO's in farming is not part of "organic farming" - what do you think?
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Sandra (sandra@idiomdrottning.org)'s status on Thursday, 31-Mar-2022 13:14:09 UTC
Sandra
@selea I oppose some specific applications of GMO, not GMO as a general class.
Some of the applications I criticize include seed sterilizations (so farmers need to buy new seeds every year, which is a waste of money and shipping), and glyphosate desensitization (so crops are grown in monocultures and blasted with poison).
Generally, I wanna solve the Earth's problems, not argue semantics and set theory β₯ -
:debian: πππππ :fedora: (selea@social.linux.pizza)'s status on Thursday, 31-Mar-2022 13:14:09 UTC
:debian: πππππ :fedora:
No I did not want you to take it as criticism of some sort! Because it was'nt! :)
I totally agree with your sentiment, and I think that GMO's (good ethical ones) are one big part of switching to a more sustainable farming and sustainable food.
But thats my "killgissning" ;)
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Sandra (sandra@idiomdrottning.org)'s status on Thursday, 31-Mar-2022 13:19:49 UTC
Sandra
@selea thirdly (sorry for making three responses to one post β₯) we need respect for the entire ecosystem. (One of the problems that the externalities bug exacerbates.) If a GMO crop has high yields but depletes the soil for example, that might be something to be cautious around and mitigate. The more natural things are, the less we need to know; the more we meddle, the more we need a full view of all the interdependencies. Santa Claes πΈπͺππ°π likes this. -
kravietz π¦ (kravietz@agora.echelon.pl)'s status on Sunday, 03-Apr-2022 06:30:18 UTC
kravietz π¦
seed sterilizations (so farmers need to buy new seeds every year, which is a waste of money and shipping),
Is it an actual practice at all (no idea), and if yes, is it exclusive to GMO seeds? Because if seeds are sterilised, how do they grow at all?
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Eric (ericireland@aus.social)'s status on Sunday, 03-Apr-2022 11:13:49 UTC
Eric
@strypey @Sandra @selea I think biotechnology has a long way to go but eventually there will be C4 rice and other crops with much higher yield, higher water use efficiency and higher nutrient use efficiency
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Strypey (strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz)'s status on Sunday, 03-Apr-2022 11:13:51 UTC
Strypey
@Sandra
> I hate the patents aspect of GMO so much that I'll even throw out the GMO baby with the patent bathwaterGMOs are a solution in search of a problem. Most GMOs created so far do something undesirable, entrench herbicide use as you mentioned, produce endogenous pesticides (BT corn) etc. The rest do something that can done in less risky ways, like vitamin A rice, which entrenches monocrop rice production instead of interplanting of vitamin A rich herbs.
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Eric (ericireland@aus.social)'s status on Tuesday, 05-Apr-2022 13:38:04 UTC
Eric
@strypey @selea Iβm not saying that there are no risks in any genetically modified foods, Iβm just saying that not all modifications have significant risks.. e.g. genetically engineered microbes have been used to make βnon animal rennetβ for 30 years without any problem. To give a non-food related example, there is some risk involved in gain of function research in pathogens and some people are opposed to it, but thereβs virtually no risk in using E.coli for molecular cloning and no one is bothered by it. Theyβre both genetic engineering.
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Strypey (strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz)'s status on Tuesday, 05-Apr-2022 13:38:06 UTC
Strypey
> I don't see any intrinsic risk with genetic engineering
There's a substantial literature about these risks, a sample of which is cited here:
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Eric (ericireland@aus.social)'s status on Tuesday, 05-Apr-2022 13:38:07 UTC
Eric
@strypey @Sandra @selea No one knows what the costs will be if unless you're talking about something specific.. You would have to assess each organism on a case-by case basis. I don't see any intrinsic risk with genetic engineering. Microbiologists insert genes into E.coli all the time to make more copies of them.
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Strypey (strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz)'s status on Tuesday, 05-Apr-2022 13:38:08 UTC
Strypey
@ericireland Such rose-tinted predictions are easy to make. I imagine similar ones were made for fossil fuels and plastics. There have indeed been some benefits realized, but it's now very clear that they're heavily outweighed by the costs. What makes you think genetic engineering will be any different?
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