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1. Devine Lu Linvega (neauoire@merveilles.town)'s status on Thursday, 24-Feb-2022 09:43:50 UTC Devine Lu Linvega

   When you don’t create things, you become defined by your tastes rather than ability. Your tastes only narrow and exclude people. so create.

   — Why the Lucky Stiff

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   • steinar@snabelen.no's status on Thursday, 24-Feb-2022 09:43:37 UTC Steinar

     in reply to

     • Cosmic Tortoise 🌙

     @CosmicTortoise @neauoire Well, now you guys made me redownload Thinking Forth and reread parts of it. :)

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   • Cosmic Tortoise 🌙 (cosmictortoise@koyu.space)'s status on Thursday, 24-Feb-2022 09:43:44 UTC Cosmic Tortoise 🌙

     in reply to

     @neauoire
     Still, I can do a lot better than be a shitty librarian. Won't bore you with the rest of it.

   • Devine Lu Linvega (neauoire@merveilles.town)'s status on Thursday, 24-Feb-2022 09:43:45 UTC Devine Lu Linvega

     in reply to

     • Cosmic Tortoise 🌙

     @CosmicTortoise haha, I think that comes with actually programming, but I haven't found how to be adequate either so..

   • Cosmic Tortoise 🌙 (cosmictortoise@koyu.space)'s status on Thursday, 24-Feb-2022 09:43:46 UTC Cosmic Tortoise 🌙

     in reply to

     @neauoire Perhaps if I actually read these books I would be an adequate programmer by now.

   • Devine Lu Linvega (neauoire@merveilles.town)'s status on Thursday, 24-Feb-2022 09:43:47 UTC Devine Lu Linvega

     in reply to

     • Cosmic Tortoise 🌙

     @CosmicTortoise starting forth is better in my opinion, but I just like that someone was both a programmer and artist and took it upon himself to bring people into that world.

   • Devine Lu Linvega (neauoire@merveilles.town)'s status on Thursday, 24-Feb-2022 09:43:48 UTC Devine Lu Linvega

     in reply to

     • Cosmic Tortoise 🌙

     @CosmicTortoise I ended up thinking about him after flipping through Thinking Forth, I don't know many examples of things that are visually inclined to teach programmatic things.

   • Cosmic Tortoise 🌙 (cosmictortoise@koyu.space)'s status on Thursday, 24-Feb-2022 09:43:48 UTC Cosmic Tortoise 🌙

     in reply to

     @neauoire I put Thinking Forth off until I finish Starting Forth, but I am starting to realize it was an unnecessary requisite.

     The language is easy, it's the planning ahead that is hard.

     I will be reading it next.

   • Cosmic Tortoise 🌙 (cosmictortoise@koyu.space)'s status on Thursday, 24-Feb-2022 09:43:49 UTC Cosmic Tortoise 🌙

     in reply to

     @neauoire
     I miss him.

     I would say I should go back to learning Ruby, but I think the spirit of his philosophy can be found in other languages, such as Rebol, Factor, Racket, [every smalltalk variant], Newspeak, and of course, tal.

     That said, I should learn Ruby again. It is the only Python I enjoy.

   • Aearo, a SeaWyrm (aearo@dragon.style)'s status on Thursday, 24-Feb-2022 09:50:08 UTC Aearo, a SeaWyrm

     in reply to

     • Cosmic Tortoise 🌙

     @CosmicTortoise @neauoire

     It's a kind of theft, really.
     Programming is magic. We are wizards for knowing it. We should be summoning daemons, calling things up by their true names, touching the source. We should be wanderers, like Ged or Gandalf, transforming the world around us in subtle and powerful ways as we move through it.

     Somehow, this vision of our role was stolen from us in favor of business casual and "disrupting" industries.

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   • Cosmic Tortoise 🌙 (cosmictortoise@koyu.space)'s status on Thursday, 24-Feb-2022 09:50:09 UTC Cosmic Tortoise 🌙

     in reply to

     @neauoire
     I honestly think the problem with learning to program is the attitude of what programming is for.

     Instead of another tool to think with, to create and explore with, it is simply a skillset needed for a job in technology.

     How can people ever enjoy computing when all the programming jobs are so boring? Or when the operating system itself is hostile to making programs?

     Or even more pathetically, getting told that you are wasting your time if they are not learning C, C++, or Java.

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