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1. Aral Balkan (aral@mastodon.ar.al)'s status on Saturday, 05-Feb-2022 10:22:43 UTC Aral Balkan

   Oh, this? It’s just Jimmy Carr casually joking that the genocide of a people was part of “the positives” of the Holocaust on Netflix.

   https://twitter.com/TravLawyer/status/1489600048044331014

   • Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅 (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Saturday, 05-Feb-2022 10:22:38 UTC Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅

     in reply to

     • savohead
     @savohead @aral It's clear that he intends it that way and utterly fails. His deadpan just comes off as sincerity and the whole house laughs heartily. I can't imagine what that would feel like for someone directly targeted by that joke.
     
     Being edgy by pretending to be a dick is just being a dick unless you are exceptionally good at it. He is not.
   • savohead@mastodon.uno's status on Saturday, 05-Feb-2022 10:22:42 UTC savohead

     in reply to

     @aral sorry if I misunderstood your phrase, but the irony behind the joke is exactly the use of a stereotype (people non liking gypsies) to make the audience uncomfortable by stretching it to the extreme

   • Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅 (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Sunday, 06-Feb-2022 05:25:29 UTC Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅

     in reply to

     • savohead
     @savohead @aral The people in the room don't seem very uncomfortable laughing, and that's part of why it's a bad joke.
   • savohead@mastodon.uno's status on Sunday, 06-Feb-2022 05:25:30 UTC savohead

     in reply to

     • Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅

     @clacke @aral I'm sorry again, but I think the irony is exactly where you see sincerity. I think he's obviously using the "common" belief that killing jews is bad but everybody is annoyed by romas, to make people feel uncomfortable laughing. It's what he does a lot of times, in his comedy, I think it would really be far fetched to think that if he jokes about people discriminating, he himself would use discrimination to state a point

   • savohead@mastodon.uno's status on Sunday, 06-Feb-2022 08:08:46 UTC savohead

     in reply to

     • Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅

     @clacke @aral really?! I mean, it starts with "this is going to be a career end" and then proceeds with the joke, people feel uncomfortable since he opens with the holocaust subject... and really, really, do you think that with this subject, with this build up, with discrimination in mind, he would go for a plain racist joke?! I'm not the best in believing in people, but here I'm quite sure more people in the audience would be offended if it meant it your way

   • Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅 (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Sunday, 06-Feb-2022 08:08:46 UTC Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅

     in reply to

     • savohead
     @savohead @aral I'm not talking about his intentions.
   • Aral Balkan (aral@mastodon.ar.al)'s status on Sunday, 06-Feb-2022 11:21:59 UTC Aral Balkan

     in reply to

     • Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅
     • savohead

     @savohead @clacke Perhaps what you’re missing is that Travellers are discriminated against and persecuted in the UK, Ireland, and elsewhere to this day. The “joke” doesn’t punch up, it punches down.

     Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅 likes this.
   • savohead@mastodon.uno's status on Sunday, 06-Feb-2022 11:22:00 UTC savohead

     in reply to

     • Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅

     @clacke @aral mmmh... sorry, so what are we talking about? The intention of the joke is to exploit the cliché of distinguishing among races, if you're not talking about what he meant, I don't get the protest is about...

   • Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅 (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Sunday, 06-Feb-2022 17:14:46 UTC Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅

     in reply to

     • savohead
     @savohead @aral That's what he's trying to do, but it doesn't work, because the only difference between this delivery being ironic and it being straight is the presumption that he's not a racist.
     
     The "this is a career-ender" lead-up doesn't rescue it either, you could say that if you're going to say something you consider an "inconvenient truth" too.
     
     We all understand what he was trying to do. We disagree whether he actually pulled it off or if he just ended up reinforcing an legitimizing some really rotten views and the people holding those views.
   • savohead@mastodon.uno's status on Sunday, 06-Feb-2022 17:14:47 UTC savohead

     in reply to

     • Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅

     @aral @clacke that's exactly the point of the joke. He's not targeting these victims, but the people that think there could be a difference between killing a group of people or killing another one. Really, how could a joke on discrimination be funny, if it uses discrimination to prove its point?

   • Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅 (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Monday, 07-Feb-2022 00:33:19 UTC Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅

     in reply to

     • savohead
     @savohead @aral No, I'm saying it doesn't matter if he's racist because the delivery is so bad that a person with racist-leaning views will be happy to claim this as their own either way.
     
     He follows up with talking about how people aren't aware that several parts of society were victims including the Jehova's Witnesses, and then he makes a joke about them too. That's like saying "of course I'm not actually saying there's anything positive with a holocaust ... or am I? [laughter]".
     
     It doesn't matter if he's racist because he's acting like a person who could be racist. His behavior is consistent with racism. That's not funny and edgy, it's unhealthy.
   • savohead@mastodon.uno's status on Monday, 07-Feb-2022 00:33:20 UTC savohead

     in reply to

     • Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅

     @clacke @aral and you know for sure he's racist?! He openly stated it somewhere I didn't read or heard?! He also explains the joke after, saying that few people know about the other minorities because schools don't teach it and people don't talk about it... how could the joke reinforce your point?!

   • savohead@mastodon.uno's status on Monday, 07-Feb-2022 02:15:17 UTC savohead

     in reply to

     • Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅

     @clacke @aral ok, so if it doesn't matter if he's racist but he uses the racist way to think to underline the fallacy of racism, he's doing a good job, what's wrong with his delivery?! He's not at all rooting for people to BE racist, I mean, nobody would really laugh if he meant it seriously. Again he uses a joke to make fun of people who think this way, not of the people who died for being gipsy or romas, so i can't think of a better delivery

   • Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅 (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Monday, 07-Feb-2022 02:15:17 UTC Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅

     in reply to

     • savohead
     @savohead I already thought he's not that great a comedian and to me this was a massively clumsy attempt at standing out that made him look worse.
     
     Bill Bailey could have made this joke and have made it funny without looking like a potential racist, but he wouldn't even have made the joke in the first place because he doesn't need to go there to get attention.
     
     But I think at this point we just disagree and it doesn't seem like either of us can help the other see our point of view.
     
     @aral @bob
   • dazinism (dazinism@social.coop)'s status on Tuesday, 08-Feb-2022 11:45:22 UTC dazinism

     in reply to

     • Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅
     • savohead

     @clacke

     Hes got previous form-
     "In January 2006, Carr made a joke on Radio 4's Loose Ends, the punchline of which implied that Gypsy women smelled. Although the BBC issued an apology, Carr refused to apologise and continued to use the joke."

     Also for punching down against other groups

     Friend of some friends has worked with him and apparently its isnt an act - hes the same off camera as on camera
     @savohead @aral @bob

     Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅 likes this.