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1. Hallå Kitteh (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Saturday, 20-May-2017 16:03:58 UTC Hallå Kitteh

   • Munin, Keeper of Lore
   • worst girl 🏴‍☠️
   • Val
   @xj9 @munin @viciousviscosity Here's what you can do to mitigate systemd in Nix: Docker images with s6-overlay.
   
   Doesn't mesh well with NixOps, sadly.
   
   Also, Docker.
   • Hallå Kitteh (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Saturday, 20-May-2017 16:05:11 UTC Hallå Kitteh

     in reply to

     • Munin, Keeper of Lore
     • worst girl 🏴‍☠️
     • Val
     @munin @viciousviscosity @xj9 If you're (generic "you") already tied to Docker though, s6-overlay is a pretty powerful pill.
   • Hallå Kitteh (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Saturday, 20-May-2017 16:06:35 UTC Hallå Kitteh

     • Munin, Keeper of Lore
     • worst girl 🏴‍☠️
     • Val
     @xj9 @munin @viciousviscosity Guix + the nonexistant GuixOps.
     
     ... yeah. :-(
   • Hallå Kitteh (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Saturday, 20-May-2017 16:07:13 UTC Hallå Kitteh

     • Munin, Keeper of Lore
     • worst girl 🏴‍☠️
     • Val
     @xj9 @munin @viciousviscosity *DDGs nomad*
   • Hallå Kitteh (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Saturday, 20-May-2017 16:09:12 UTC Hallå Kitteh

     in reply to
     #nomad https://www.nomadproject.io/docs/drivers/index.html
   • Hallå Kitteh (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Saturday, 20-May-2017 16:12:31 UTC Hallå Kitteh

     • Munin, Keeper of Lore
     • worst girl 🏴‍☠️
     • Val
     @xj9 @munin @viciousviscosity Maybe check out using `guix bundle` with #nomad .
     
     https://www.gnu.org/software/guix/news/creating-bundles-with-guix-pack.html
   • Hallå Kitteh (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Saturday, 20-May-2017 16:12:47 UTC Hallå Kitteh

     in reply to
     s/bundle/pack/
   • Hallå Kitteh (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Saturday, 20-May-2017 16:14:07 UTC Hallå Kitteh

     • Munin, Keeper of Lore
     • ‭‮ʀᴇᴛᴛɪᴡT‮ 💀
     @twitter @munin Exactly, this specific issue is a year old.
   • Hallå Kitteh (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Saturday, 20-May-2017 16:15:28 UTC Hallå Kitteh

     • Munin, Keeper of Lore
     • worst girl 🏴‍☠️
     • Val
     @munin @viciousviscosity @xj9 https://social.heldscal.la/url/473974
   • LinuxWalt (@lnxw48a1) {3EB165E0-5BB1-45D2-9E7D-93B31821F864} (lnxw48a1@nu.federati.net)'s status on Saturday, 20-May-2017 17:56:05 UTC LinuxWalt (@lnxw48a1) {3EB165E0-5BB1-45D2-9E7D-93B31821F864}

     • Christopher M. Hobbs
     • Munin, Keeper of Lore
     @hobbsc I believe @munin comes from a security orientation: PID 1 should do very few things: start your system, launch processes, kill processes, shut down your system, and a couple of others. Systemd is just too invasive for that role.
     
     I'm personally uncomfortable with this, and with the way it suddenly conquered nearly every distro. I'm not otherwise against it, but I do intend to swap the family's VPS fleet to Devuan instead of Debian (have not found a non-systemd replacement for CentOS yet) pending consultation with the kids.
     
     OTOH, whenever I've had #systemd on a computer or VPS from the beginning, I haven't had much of a problem. Switching from #sysvinit ("upgrades" by the distro), however has always failed, requiring a from-scratch reinstall to make the computer operational again.
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   • Maiyannah Bishop (maiyannah@plateia.org)'s status on Saturday, 20-May-2017 18:01:20 UTC Maiyannah Bishop

     in reply to

     • Christopher M. Hobbs
     • LinuxWalt (@lnxw48a1) {3EB165E0-5BB1-45D2-9E7D-93B31821F864}
     @lnxw48a1 @munin @hobbsc Ironically, going the other way, from systemd to sysvinit, works just great.  I recently transferred plateia.org from systemd (debian default on jessie) to sysvinit without any problems at all.  I did end up copying proper sysvinit files from another box though, but even without that it worked just fine (I just like my pretty service status readouts, instead of just "UP")
     
     runit works fine on CentOS, by the way.  My linux partition is CentOS 6.8 with sysvinit replaced by runit.  Works just fine.
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   • Maiyannah Bishop (maiyannah@plateia.org)'s status on Saturday, 20-May-2017 18:43:59 UTC Maiyannah Bishop

     • Verius
     • archaeme
     • Christopher M. Hobbs
     • LinuxWalt (@lnxw48a1) {3EB165E0-5BB1-45D2-9E7D-93B31821F864}
     @verius @archaeme @lnxw48a1 @hobbsc Try runit
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   • Hallå Kitteh (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Sunday, 21-May-2017 00:23:23 UTC Hallå Kitteh

     • Munin, Keeper of Lore
     • worst girl 🏴‍☠️
     • Val
     @xj9 @munin @viciousviscosity I agree that providing alternatives is better. But providing the perspective "well, it shit right over me" is helpful if people think a thing is all roses.
   • Verius (verius@community.highlandarrow.com)'s status on Sunday, 21-May-2017 09:00:28 UTC Verius

     • Christopher M. Hobbs
     • Munin, Keeper of Lore
     @hobbsc @munin Systemd has a bunch of good ideas but the devs tend to have an attitude of "we own the init system, you will adapt to what we decide". Often the technical arguments behind their decisions have merit but they don't seem to be team players. I think it's that attitude that's putting a lot of people off.
     
     Also, they take such a broad view of what the init system should do that even pro-systemd people like me become uncomfortable with it. E.g. tying stuff up with dbus, making cron jobs a task of the init system, the integration with journald. 
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   • Maiyannah Bishop (maiyannah@plateia.org)'s status on Sunday, 21-May-2017 11:46:09 UTC Maiyannah Bishop

     • Former Bob Jonkman -- Please use the new server at https://gs.jonkman.ca
     • Verius
     • archaeme
     • Christopher M. Hobbs
     • LinuxWalt (@lnxw48a1) {3EB165E0-5BB1-45D2-9E7D-93B31821F864}
     @verius @archaeme @lnxw48a1 @hobbsc @bobjonkman "There's a difference between freedom of choice and free-form."
     
     False.
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   • Verius (verius@community.highlandarrow.com)'s status on Sunday, 21-May-2017 16:11:42 UTC Verius

     • Christopher M. Hobbs
     • Munin, Keeper of Lore
     @munin @hobbsc I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you're referring to as Linux,
     is in fact, Systemd/Linux, or as I've recently taken to calling it, Systemd plus Linux.
     Linux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component
     of a fully functioning Systemd system made useful by the Systemd init system, shell
     utilities and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by Lennart Poettering.
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