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1. b9AcE (b9ace@quitter.se)'s status on Saturday, 18-Mar-2017 02:24:04 UTC b9AcE

   • dreezJ
   @dreezj AFAIK, Swedish organization forms are different from e.g. U.S. ones. Can be corporation, association or trust. Coops tend to →
   • Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) and Hallå Kitteh repeated this.
   • dreezJ (dreezj@quitter.se)'s status on Saturday, 18-Mar-2017 01:57:58 UTC dreezJ
     @b9ace Do you think En Kompis Kompis might be better formed as a cooperative? #cooperative #nonprofit #incorporation #quitter #backing #tech
     Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) and Hallå Kitteh repeated this.
   • b9AcE (b9ace@quitter.se)'s status on Saturday, 18-Mar-2017 02:05:31 UTC b9AcE

     in reply to

     • dreezJ
     @dreezj Hummm... I think it may already be one? In Swedish version of http://enkompiskompis.se/en/en-kompis-kompis/ they use "förening"...
     Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) and Hallå Kitteh repeated this.
   • b9AcE (b9ace@quitter.se)'s status on Saturday, 18-Mar-2017 02:25:10 UTC b9AcE

     in reply to

     • dreezJ
     @dreezj ← be filed as associations (förening). Only the corporation (AFAIK) allows for buying of shares. I'm not a lawyer though.
     Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) and Hallå Kitteh repeated this.
   • b9AcE (b9ace@quitter.se)'s status on Saturday, 18-Mar-2017 02:28:03 UTC b9AcE

     • dreezJ
     @dreezj Yep. "Ideell förening" is one whose statutes doesn't require it to operate with profit as goal. What coops tend to choose here.
     Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) and Hallå Kitteh repeated this.
   • dreezJ (dreezj@quitter.se)'s status on Saturday, 18-Mar-2017 02:28:47 UTC dreezJ

     in reply to
     @b9ace From my understanding of US law, co-ops are a hybrid of for-profit &non-profit entities which are meant 2b productive & "sustainable"
     Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) and Hallå Kitteh repeated this.
   • Hallå Kitteh (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Saturday, 18-Mar-2017 02:40:26 UTC Hallå Kitteh

     in reply to

     • dreezJ
     @b9ace @dreezj
     
     Corporation = Aktiebolag
     Trust = Stiftelse
     Non-profit organization = fuzzy term, could be any form, but often formed as an Ideell förening
     Cooperative = Ekonomisk förening
   • b9AcE (b9ace@quitter.se)'s status on Saturday, 18-Mar-2017 02:42:37 UTC b9AcE

     in reply to

     • Hallå Kitteh
     • dreezJ
     @clacke Yep. Translating these terms properly when I translate news is a constant difficulty for me. None are complete matches. @dreezj
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   • b9AcE (b9ace@quitter.se)'s status on Saturday, 18-Mar-2017 02:48:59 UTC b9AcE

     in reply to

     • Hallå Kitteh
     • dreezJ
     @clacke Swedish courts' official dictionary:
     ekonomisk förening ~ cooperative association
     ideell förening ~ non-profit association @dreezj
     Hallå Kitteh likes this.
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   • dreezJ (dreezj@quitter.se)'s status on Saturday, 18-Mar-2017 02:50:48 UTC dreezJ

     in reply to

     • Hallå Kitteh
     @b9ace Right so En Kompis Kompis is ideell forening, not ekonomisk. @clacke
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   • Hallå Kitteh (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Saturday, 18-Mar-2017 02:50:51 UTC Hallå Kitteh

     in reply to

     • dreezJ
     @dreezj @b9ace A coop doesn't have profits and dividends in the sense that it has shareholders and people can accumulate shares. It has members, and its purpose is to further the financial interest of its members, by being a sales channes for their work, by selling things to them at a good price, or by providing services.
     
     Usually there is a flat membership fee, and often profits are shared through e.g. lowered service fees or return on service fees, not proportional to any kind of difference in investment.
   • Hallå Kitteh (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Saturday, 18-Mar-2017 02:51:58 UTC Hallå Kitteh

     in reply to

     • dreezJ
     @dreezj @b9ace Yes.
   • dreezJ (dreezj@quitter.se)'s status on Saturday, 18-Mar-2017 02:52:58 UTC dreezJ

     in reply to

     • Hallå Kitteh
     @clacke So how does it raise capital to expand it's operations?  I believe some structures DO have shares which can be accumulated. @b9ace
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   • Hallå Kitteh (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Saturday, 18-Mar-2017 02:57:06 UTC Hallå Kitteh

     in reply to

     • dreezJ
     @dreezj @b9ace In Sweden in the 90s, banks that were trusts and coops restructured as corporations to expand their operations. I think that's your answer right there. The type of expansion you are talking about is a corporate model.
     
     A cooperative expands when it gains more members and they purchase more of its services. There are wind power cooperatives in Sweden that sell shares, but what those shares mean is a certain quota of the power output available for you to purchase.
     
     The moment you start selling shares as a way to raise capital and you pay back dividends on those shares, you're a corporation, not a cooperative.
   • dreezJ (dreezj@quitter.se)'s status on Saturday, 18-Mar-2017 03:01:00 UTC dreezJ

     in reply to

     • Hallå Kitteh
     @clacke @b9ace Santa Monica grocery co-op is selling shares to finance second market, but still classed as co-op/ unsure of this distinction
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   • Hallå Kitteh (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Saturday, 18-Mar-2017 03:08:25 UTC Hallå Kitteh

     in reply to

     • dreezJ
     @dreezj @b9ace Maybe they set up some complicated structure to support this. For example, the cooperative could own a corporation, or the corporation could be a member of the coop and possibly support the coop through loans or donations.
   • dreezJ (dreezj@quitter.se)'s status on Saturday, 18-Mar-2017 03:09:33 UTC dreezJ

     in reply to

     • Hallå Kitteh
     @clacke What is heldscal.la ? If you don't mind me asking?
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   • dreezJ (dreezj@quitter.se)'s status on Saturday, 18-Mar-2017 03:10:45 UTC dreezJ

     in reply to

     • Hallå Kitteh
     @clacke @b9ace  That seems possible, but I am wondering if essentially the co-op cannot do it itself?  I am honestly not sure either way.
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   • Hallå Kitteh (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Saturday, 18-Mar-2017 03:10:48 UTC Hallå Kitteh

     in reply to

     • Constance Variable
     • dreezJ
     @dreezj It is @lambadalambda. No more legal structure than that.
   • Hallå Kitteh (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Saturday, 18-Mar-2017 03:13:21 UTC Hallå Kitteh

     in reply to

     • dreezJ
     @dreezj @b9ace It's possible that this grocery store is simply a corporation with a community of shareholders that hold cooperative values, maybe supported by the bylaws of the corporation.
   • Hallå Kitteh (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Saturday, 18-Mar-2017 03:32:31 UTC Hallå Kitteh

     in reply to

     • dreezJ
     @dreezj @b9ace http://www.coopportunity.com/membership
     
     They have a membership share ceiling at 300 USD and you pay 25 USD/year until you reach lifetime membership. You can't sell your shares on the market, instead you refund them and they get destroyed. There are no dividends. You get discounts and a raffle, not proportional to you accumulated investment. So it's very much not a corporation.