@DashEquals @jamie @jaywink

Many people have good critical thinking and recognise con artists, but many don't. Many fall for them, I know some who have done so.

Whatever your message, the more people you reach, the more responses you get including the responses you want.

Even if a smaller percentage of a wider audience respond, the absolute number is much larger, and that's what matters in elections, primaries, fundraisers etc.

@DashEquals @jaywink

Their goal is to recruit more Nazis.

All they have to do is reach as many people as possible, because they know a certain percentage will respond to their propaganda.

Allowing them in WILL tear us apart, not just online but in the real world.

We know what happened last time people thought they could be appeased or debated.

@jamie @jaywink @DashEquals

Again, it's not just about what users find objectionable.

The problem is recruitment: if someone is swayed by neo-Nazi propaganda, they won't *want* to block it, they will go back for more.

And the consequences of that would be felt in the real world.

@DashEquals @jaywink

What *they* want you to think is that federation with them is an acceptable idea, because the marketplace of ideas will defeat them in the end.

But it won't.

Nazis don't operate on an intellectual level. They operate on an emotional level where they tell any lie to try to provoke an irrational response.

They try to get people to think their families are in danger if the "outsiders" aren't stopped (i.e. PoC, muslims, LGBTs etc).

Debating Nazis doesn't work.

@DashEquals @jaywink

No.

The goal of neo-Nazis is to reach as wide an audience as possible.

They hate bans or restrictions, because they know it hampers their ability to recruit. Why do you think they want to federate?

Allowing them to federate with us is EXACTLY what would tear us apart, as they start convincing a sizeable chunk of the fediverse that people of a different skin colour/religion/sexuality deserve to die.

@switchingsocial @jaywink
There are multiple types of policies. What we're talking about now are federation policies.

What I'm saying is, in our fear of neo-Nazis, the policies we implement might do far more damage than the neo-Nazis themselves, which is exactly their goal. They know that they themselves can't do much damage, but if they get us to tear ourselves apart, they've succeeded.

@DashEquals @jaywink

We really aren't talking about policies. None of us are lawmakers, none of this is to do with any law or government.

@switchingsocial @jaywink No, I'm talking about policies. People's fear of terrorism caused those government policies.

If we could *just* deny neo-Nazis an audience, great, but there are negative side affects to that, which cause more problems. Why do you think the US constitution allows free speech, even of the awful type?

@DashEquals @jaywink

You're taking this off topic.

We're not talking about government action or changes in the law here, we're talking about instance owners choosing whether to defederate.

Giving Neo-Nazis an audience cause more harm than denying them an audience.

After the Second World War, the far right was practically invisible because no TV or radio station or newspaper would touch them due to their well-deserved pariah status.

@switchingsocial @jaywink Again, actions we take against neo-Nazis will harm us more than actual neo-Nazis in this case, playing exactly into their hand.

We've seen this before with anti-terrorism costing billions and destroying our right to privacy. Do we want to repeat that with anti-Nazism destroying the free and social web, pushing people back to simpler, centralized platforms that they can at least follow their friends on?

@jaywink @DashEquals

If they federate with Gab, they are expanding Gab's audience and reach.

I know people want to opt out of this debate, but this isn't a situation with any neutral option.

@switchingsocial @DashEquals is Are you sure mstdn.io is full of neo-nazies tho?

@jaywink @DashEquals

Preventing the spread of neo-Nazism is more important than encouraging federated social networks.

Hopefully we can do both these things, but we cannot do both if neo-Nazis are allowed to federate freely.

@switchingsocial @DashEquals ... and thus the #Fediverse is torn apart and a dream of a #federated social network dies :)

@jaywink @DashEquals

There is no neutral position here. If you are a Fediverse instance owner, your choice is to either shrink or widen Gab's audience.

If you allow federation with Gab, you widen Gab's audience, you make it easier for them to recruit more neo-Nazis, and make it harder to contain them on a single instance.

The danger people are worried about is to vulnerable groups in the real world: actual physical danger.