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  1. Temporary Marjolein (mk@oracle.skilledtests.com)'s status on Thursday, 13-Aug-2015 15:57:01 UTC Temporary Marjolein Temporary Marjolein
    • Erkan Yılmaz
    @erkanyilmaz reading through that... btw that very same FAQ does state that there _could_ be ads (and calling te mechanism "democratic" is overstating it when someone with money to burn can effectively "buy" the resources to send ads (or spam))
    In conversation Thursday, 13-Aug-2015 15:57:01 UTC from oracle.skilledtests.com permalink
    • Temporary Marjolein (mk@oracle.skilledtests.com)'s status on Thursday, 13-Aug-2015 08:06:24 UTC Temporary Marjolein Temporary Marjolein
      • Erkan Yılmaz
      @erkanyilmaz well, we are not using twister... but your hoster should have alerted you earlier, no doubt about that
      In conversation Thursday, 13-Aug-2015 08:06:24 UTC permalink
    • Temporary Marjolein (mk@oracle.skilledtests.com)'s status on Thursday, 13-Aug-2015 08:14:11 UTC Temporary Marjolein Temporary Marjolein
      • Erkan Yılmaz
      @erkanyilmaz that's very disappointing :( I can imagine though not wanting to stay with this hoster.
      In conversation Thursday, 13-Aug-2015 08:14:11 UTC permalink
    • Temporary Marjolein (mk@oracle.skilledtests.com)'s status on Thursday, 13-Aug-2015 08:18:55 UTC Temporary Marjolein Temporary Marjolein
      • Erkan Yılmaz
      @erkanyilmaz twister doesn't support my goals. GS does as soon as it can do hierarchical convos - which is not (yet) and my only reason to want to stay with SN
      In conversation Thursday, 13-Aug-2015 08:18:55 UTC permalink
    • Temporary Marjolein (mk@oracle.skilledtests.com)'s status on Thursday, 13-Aug-2015 08:22:19 UTC Temporary Marjolein Temporary Marjolein
      • Erkan Yılmaz
      @erkanyilmaz I do NOT see that your activities were fruitless.
      In conversation Thursday, 13-Aug-2015 08:22:19 UTC permalink
    • Temporary Marjolein (mk@oracle.skilledtests.com)'s status on Thursday, 13-Aug-2015 08:31:14 UTC Temporary Marjolein Temporary Marjolein
      • Erkan Yılmaz
      @erkanyilmaz I do not see GS/SN as 'past' - it's still actively being developed, and new people are coming into the #fediverse all the time. It's struggling with the legacy of sloppy programming in SN (or rather sloppy design) but progress is being made. Federation is *hard* - especially for things like direct messages or groups.
      In conversation Thursday, 13-Aug-2015 08:31:14 UTC permalink
    • Temporary Marjolein (mk@oracle.skilledtests.com)'s status on Thursday, 13-Aug-2015 08:36:27 UTC Temporary Marjolein Temporary Marjolein
      • Lohan G
      @lohang solved what problem? hierarchical conversations?
      In conversation Thursday, 13-Aug-2015 08:36:27 UTC permalink
    • Temporary Marjolein (mk@oracle.skilledtests.com)'s status on Thursday, 13-Aug-2015 08:41:55 UTC Temporary Marjolein Temporary Marjolein
      • Erkan Yılmaz
      @erkanyilmaz twister is still small, and federation cannot be completely supported without what I'll call 'local caching' - as a network grows, more processing and storage will need to be devoted to that - and that will make self-hosting hard again as many people won't be able to pay for the costs of al ltis extra storage and processing. twister is now where laconica was at the beginning - and problems of scaling were surfacing soon. twister will be good for self-hosting only as long as the network remains small - or it will remain lacking in features.
      In conversation Thursday, 13-Aug-2015 08:41:55 UTC permalink
      Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) repeated this.
    • Lohan G (lohang@gnusocial.no)'s status on Thursday, 13-Aug-2015 08:46:42 UTC Lohan G Lohan G
      in reply to
      • Erkan Yılmaz
      @mk that surely is a very good point. I am already finding it difficult to run Twister all the time with…
      In conversation Thursday, 13-Aug-2015 08:46:42 UTC permalink
      Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) repeated this.
    • aqeel (aqeel@social.aqeeliz.com)'s status on Thursday, 13-Aug-2015 08:48:14 UTC aqeel aqeel
      • Erkan Yılmaz
      @erkanyilmaz You've always been a great help for me and many other users in the fediverse, so I won't say your activities here are/were a waste. So, if you do move on, your presence here will be missed :)
      In conversation Thursday, 13-Aug-2015 08:48:14 UTC permalink
      Temporary Marjolein repeated this.
    • Erkan Yılmaz (erkanyilmaz@oracle.skilledtests.com)'s status on Thursday, 13-Aug-2015 08:49:56 UTC Erkan Yılmaz Erkan Yılmaz
      in reply to
      There are ideas like: to distribute "light trees" which are very pruned merkle trees for veri…
      In conversation Thursday, 13-Aug-2015 08:49:56 UTC permalink
      Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) repeated this.
    • Temporary Marjolein (mk@oracle.skilledtests.com)'s status on Thursday, 13-Aug-2015 08:51:22 UTC Temporary Marjolein Temporary Marjolein
      • Erkan Yılmaz
      @erkanyilmaz if so, that is one of the 'legacy' problems - which Evan only recognized when people were taking him up on is promise to provide a complete database of their activities. This data is poorly structured (ATOM doesn't support all of SN's features!), ,and the process for "importing" is even worse. It remains to be seen wether twister truly can support these things with a better data structure as the network grows. I'm sceptical precisely because growth of a network tends to cause exponential effects - which (as I said before) is what will make self-hosting unfeasible for many again. Have the developers of twister done any calculations on what will happen on scalingup?
      In conversation Thursday, 13-Aug-2015 08:51:22 UTC permalink
      Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) repeated this.
    • Erkan Yılmaz (erkanyilmaz@oracle.skilledtests.com)'s status on Thursday, 13-Aug-2015 08:55:05 UTC Erkan Yılmaz Erkan Yılmaz
      in reply to
      future is future. now is now. sn/gs didn't achieve to "fix this" for so a long time. twister does it: I like that. point
      In conversation Thursday, 13-Aug-2015 08:55:05 UTC permalink
      Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) repeated this.
    • Temporary Marjolein (mk@oracle.skilledtests.com)'s status on Thursday, 13-Aug-2015 08:57:51 UTC Temporary Marjolein Temporary Marjolein
      • Erkan Yılmaz
      @erkanyilmaz that is just as 'blinkered' as Evan's attitude was. If you want to build a system for the masses to use, you'd better *design* for those masses now.
      In conversation Thursday, 13-Aug-2015 08:57:51 UTC permalink
      Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) repeated this.
    • Temporary Marjolein (mk@oracle.skilledtests.com)'s status on Thursday, 13-Aug-2015 08:59:37 UTC Temporary Marjolein Temporary Marjolein
      • Erkan Yılmaz
      @erkanyilmaz I read that as 'forever starting over'
      In conversation Thursday, 13-Aug-2015 08:59:37 UTC permalink
    • stig atle (stigatle@quitter.no)'s status on Thursday, 13-Aug-2015 09:02:29 UTC stig atle stig atle
      • Erkan Yılmaz
      • aqeel
      • Lohan G
      @aqeel No problem running it locally, it syncs the next time you start it. //  @lohang @erkanyilmaz
      In conversation Thursday, 13-Aug-2015 09:02:29 UTC permalink
    • Temporary Marjolein (mk@oracle.skilledtests.com)'s status on Thursday, 13-Aug-2015 10:08:54 UTC Temporary Marjolein Temporary Marjolein
      • imojito
      @imojito what do you mean by a "docker container"?
      In conversation Thursday, 13-Aug-2015 10:08:54 UTC permalink
    • Temporary Marjolein (mk@oracle.skilledtests.com)'s status on Thursday, 13-Aug-2015 10:19:48 UTC Temporary Marjolein Temporary Marjolein
      • VegOs ✔♋
      @vegos Russians are here (at least one that I know of). Don't know about Chinese but we used to have at least two people in China. To me, Twister looks like a very small village because it hasn't encountered the problems of scale yet. Is it te software that is "stopping" Russians or Chinese from joining? Or is it just who happens to find a network and then brings all their friends? (The latter is what happened with the "spanish invasion" (a very welcome invasion, as far as I'm concerned). Compared to Twitter, even the GS/SN federation is a small network. Recruitment happens largely through coincidence (who happens to find what and who happens to know whom).
      In conversation Thursday, 13-Aug-2015 10:19:48 UTC permalink
    • Temporary Marjolein (mk@oracle.skilledtests.com)'s status on Thursday, 13-Aug-2015 10:24:24 UTC Temporary Marjolein Temporary Marjolein
      • imojito
      @imojito that doesn't explain what docker is (only to "start using" it)
      In conversation Thursday, 13-Aug-2015 10:24:24 UTC permalink
    • Temporary Marjolein (mk@oracle.skilledtests.com)'s status on Thursday, 13-Aug-2015 10:26:18 UTC Temporary Marjolein Temporary Marjolein
      in reply to
      @mk and btw I see that "Kitematic Free" is only avaialble iOS and Windows, not Linux.
      In conversation Thursday, 13-Aug-2015 10:26:18 UTC permalink
    • Temporary Marjolein (mk@oracle.skilledtests.com)'s status on Thursday, 13-Aug-2015 10:34:54 UTC Temporary Marjolein Temporary Marjolein
      • Erkan Yılmaz
      @erkanyilmaz but you suggested that could come after a particular issue had been solved.
      In conversation Thursday, 13-Aug-2015 10:34:54 UTC permalink
    • Temporary Marjolein (mk@oracle.skilledtests.com)'s status on Thursday, 13-Aug-2015 10:38:21 UTC Temporary Marjolein Temporary Marjolein
      • imojito
      @imojito so are you saying GS runs inside Docker (or a "docker container"?) I found this: https://www.docker.com/whatisdocker but still don't see how that relates to GS or self-hosting (or both), let alone kitematic. Please explain!
      In conversation Thursday, 13-Aug-2015 10:38:21 UTC permalink
    • Temporary Marjolein (mk@oracle.skilledtests.com)'s status on Thursday, 13-Aug-2015 10:43:28 UTC Temporary Marjolein Temporary Marjolein
      • Erkan Yılmaz
      @erkanyilmaz I understood it as a joke, but some may have taken it seriously
      In conversation Thursday, 13-Aug-2015 10:43:28 UTC permalink
    • Temporary Marjolein (mk@oracle.skilledtests.com)'s status on Thursday, 13-Aug-2015 10:55:10 UTC Temporary Marjolein Temporary Marjolein
      • Erkan Yılmaz
      @erkanyilmaz :)
      In conversation Thursday, 13-Aug-2015 10:55:10 UTC permalink
    • Temporary Marjolein (mk@oracle.skilledtests.com)'s status on Thursday, 13-Aug-2015 11:46:32 UTC Temporary Marjolein Temporary Marjolein
      • imojito
      @imojito ah, "hypothetical" - so there is no such thing, or not yet. So how does this make GS/SN easy to self-host?
      In conversation Thursday, 13-Aug-2015 11:46:32 UTC permalink
    • Temporary Marjolein (mk@oracle.skilledtests.com)'s status on Thursday, 13-Aug-2015 11:58:40 UTC Temporary Marjolein Temporary Marjolein
      • imojito
      @imojito well, if that makes it easier to self-host then maybe someone should do that. (You?) But I had never even heard of docker! (I likely would have if GS could run with it.) It looks interesting, but I don't see how this *actually* would make self-hosting easier. Easier to install, probably - but self-hosting is more sysadminning and running than installing. So I'd be interested to know if anyone has actually tested this out.
      In conversation Thursday, 13-Aug-2015 11:58:40 UTC permalink
    • Temporary Marjolein (mk@oracle.skilledtests.com)'s status on Thursday, 13-Aug-2015 12:23:12 UTC Temporary Marjolein Temporary Marjolein
      • aqeel
      @aqeel it definitely looks very interesting - especially if you can create one "container" that will run on multiple operating systems
      In conversation Thursday, 13-Aug-2015 12:23:12 UTC permalink
    • Temporary Marjolein (mk@oracle.skilledtests.com)'s status on Thursday, 13-Aug-2015 12:58:16 UTC Temporary Marjolein Temporary Marjolein
      • VegOs ✔♋
      @vegos that is quite possible with GS/SN, we have users in many countries with restricted internet access.
      In conversation Thursday, 13-Aug-2015 12:58:16 UTC permalink
    • vinzv (vinzv@gnusocial.de)'s status on Thursday, 13-Aug-2015 12:58:38 UTC vinzv vinzv
      • Erkan Yılmaz

      @erkanyilmaz Sad to hear you’ll leave! Any plans on migrating existing users? Can we help?

      In conversation Thursday, 13-Aug-2015 12:58:38 UTC permalink
    • Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) (clackemovedtoheldscalla@quitter.se)'s status on Thursday, 13-Aug-2015 14:57:23 UTC Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠)
      in reply to
      • Erkan Yılmaz
      • Lohan G
      @lohang @mk @erkanyilmaz If I understand twister correctly, that it's a blockchain with all the message IDs (?), that sounds really heavy.
      In conversation Thursday, 13-Aug-2015 14:57:23 UTC permalink
    • Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) (clackemovedtoheldscalla@quitter.se)'s status on Thursday, 13-Aug-2015 14:58:08 UTC Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠)
      in reply to
      • Erkan Yılmaz
      • Lohan G
      @lohang @mk @erkanyilmaz That said, this conversation has made me curious, and I will probably install it on my phone.
      In conversation Thursday, 13-Aug-2015 14:58:08 UTC permalink
    • Erkan Yılmaz (erkanyilmaz@oracle.skilledtests.com)'s status on Thursday, 13-Aug-2015 15:04:30 UTC Erkan Yılmaz Erkan Yılmaz
      in reply to
      • Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠)
      only usernames are stored in twister's blockchain: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/twister-users/cLbO1qHvUBA
      In conversation Thursday, 13-Aug-2015 15:04:30 UTC permalink
      Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) repeated this.
    • Erkan Yılmaz (erkanyilmaz@oracle.skilledtests.com)'s status on Thursday, 13-Aug-2015 15:07:22 UTC Erkan Yılmaz Erkan Yılmaz
      in reply to
      • Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠)
      Great. Which phone you have? Here (1) are some installers. Also, if you run into problems or …
      In conversation Thursday, 13-Aug-2015 15:07:22 UTC permalink
      Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) repeated this.
    • Temporary Marjolein (mk@oracle.skilledtests.com)'s status on Thursday, 13-Aug-2015 15:21:28 UTC Temporary Marjolein Temporary Marjolein
      • Erkan Yılmaz
      @erkanyilmaz so to view a complete conversation you have to retrieve all the bits from all the users? Every time? What happens whenusers have turned off their instance - would you get any message? how is teh supposedly hierarchical view handled some with nodes offline?
      In conversation Thursday, 13-Aug-2015 15:21:28 UTC permalink
      Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) repeated this.
    • Temporary Marjolein (mk@oracle.skilledtests.com)'s status on Thursday, 13-Aug-2015 15:38:05 UTC Temporary Marjolein Temporary Marjolein
      • Erkan Yılmaz
      @erkanyilmaz so there is more than just the (potentially enormous) blockchain; so from one node propagated to - how many? wich nodes?
      In conversation Thursday, 13-Aug-2015 15:38:05 UTC permalink
    • Temporary Marjolein (mk@oracle.skilledtests.com)'s status on Thursday, 13-Aug-2015 15:39:08 UTC Temporary Marjolein Temporary Marjolein
      • Erkan Yılmaz
      @erkanyilmaz and how does the requesting node know which other node to ask for a missing bit?
      In conversation Thursday, 13-Aug-2015 15:39:08 UTC permalink
    • Temporary Marjolein (mk@oracle.skilledtests.com)'s status on Thursday, 13-Aug-2015 16:18:24 UTC Temporary Marjolein Temporary Marjolein
      • Erkan Yılmaz
      @erkanyilmaz "only the sn/gs instances who follow the sender get the messages" - how is that "better"? bhetter for whom or what?
      In conversation Thursday, 13-Aug-2015 16:18:24 UTC permalink
    • Erkan Yılmaz (erkanyilmaz@oracle.skilledtests.com)'s status on Thursday, 13-Aug-2015 16:19:32 UTC Erkan Yılmaz Erkan Yılmaz
      in reply to
      • lnxw48 (Linux Walt)
      • VegOs ✔♋
      • Lohan G
      ... and, someone with money can spam all of us here in a much faster time (than e.g. on twister). ads/spam are not a problem on twister. feel free to ask @lnxw48 (1) @lohang @vegos - (1) https://fresh.federati.net/notice/277285
      In conversation Thursday, 13-Aug-2015 16:19:32 UTC permalink
      Temporary Marjolein repeated this.
    • Temporary Marjolein (mk@oracle.skilledtests.com)'s status on Thursday, 13-Aug-2015 16:20:51 UTC Temporary Marjolein Temporary Marjolein
      • Erkan Yılmaz
      @erkanyilmaz "on sn/gs you can not retrieve the past msgs of the sender" aren't you just describing one long-living bug? I've seen no such limitation in the API
      In conversation Thursday, 13-Aug-2015 16:20:51 UTC permalink
    • Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) (clackemovedtoheldscalla@quitter.se)'s status on Thursday, 13-Aug-2015 16:22:58 UTC Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠)
      in reply to
      • Erkan Yılmaz
      @erkanyilmaz I got twister from F-Droid, but I don't see a way to configure my user.
      In conversation Thursday, 13-Aug-2015 16:22:58 UTC permalink
    • Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) (clackemovedtoheldscalla@quitter.se)'s status on Thursday, 13-Aug-2015 16:25:10 UTC Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠)
      in reply to
      • Erkan Yılmaz
      @erkanyilmaz But I saw some 3rd party repos, so I'll get one there.
      In conversation Thursday, 13-Aug-2015 16:25:10 UTC permalink
    • Temporary Marjolein (mk@oracle.skilledtests.com)'s status on Thursday, 13-Aug-2015 16:26:30 UTC Temporary Marjolein Temporary Marjolein
      in reply to
      • Erkan Yılmaz
      @erkanyilmaz spam was not a problem in the early days of laconica/identica either - it's only when a potential audience of a critical size exists that it becomes interesting enough to spend the resources to spam. And since Twister even makes ads _possible_ surely that *will* happen. And of course individuals can just join in with spam messages. It's like with viruses: once the potential audience is large enough it WILL start.
      In conversation Thursday, 13-Aug-2015 16:26:30 UTC permalink
      Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) repeated this.

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