Conversation

Notices

1. Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅 (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Saturday, 17-Feb-2024 09:16:30 UTC Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅

   Has research been done on what an interpreted or compiled virtual machine language and model "should" look like? For whatever weighted factors of efficient implementation, suitable target for compilation from multiple paradigms of languages, etc.

   Candidate examples with comments to follow:

   • Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅 (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Saturday, 17-Feb-2024 09:16:28 UTC Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅

     in reply to

     - Wasm, just no, it's a strongly path-dependent outgrowth of whatever JS happened to look like, and then optimized to asm.js and mutated from there, or am I wrong?

     - Uxn is more written for easy and fun of implementing and writing for, I think? Performance and versatility for general-purpose computing isn't really a goal?

     - FCode + OpenFirmware probably does well, but is also based more on what's familiar and available and works, rather than theoretical foundations?

     - Pascal-P and Pascal-S p-code and BCPL O-code are (1) early and (2) language-specific

     - Too many other highly language-coupled VMs to mention

   • Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅 (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Saturday, 17-Feb-2024 09:16:29 UTC Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅

     in reply to

     - IBM i / AS/400 / System/38's Machine Interface was made in 1978 before we knew many of the things we know about language and machine design today

     - The JVM was made specifically for Java, even though it has mutated into supporting other paradigms

     - I wouldn't be surprised if the CLR were actually backed by research like this, but does somebody here know?

     - ParrotVM was made for hosting a range of language paradigms but, happy to be proven wrong, I'm kind of assuming it was designed (1) from craftsmanship, gut feeling and artistry rather than theory, and (2) not so much toward implementation efficiency

     - LLVM IL, maybe? Research-based compiler with strong theoretical foundations, a focus on efficiency and hosting multiple languages, but maybe not with an eye toward a durable and standardized representation?

   • LinuxWalt (@lnxw48a1) {3EB165E0-5BB1-45D2-9E7D-93B31821F864} (lnxw48a1@nu.federati.net)'s status on Monday, 19-Feb-2024 01:07:57 UTC LinuxWalt (@lnxw48a1) {3EB165E0-5BB1-45D2-9E7D-93B31821F864}

     in reply to
     @clacke One thing that I'd like to see is that these sort of threads are followed up with a longer term reference format (e.g., blog post, wiki post) somewhere that is easily findable & searchable. If (for example) I was to decide to write my own language, this thread and its links and comments could be useful when I'm implementing it.
   • Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅 (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Monday, 19-Feb-2024 05:54:11 UTC Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅

     in reply to
     @lnxw48a1 I have very occasionally made an HPR show with blogpost-like show notes based on an interesting thread I've caused, but it takes a lot more time and focus than throwing out a thought and getting some comments does.
     LinuxWalt (@lnxw48a1) {3EB165E0-5BB1-45D2-9E7D-93B31821F864} likes this.