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1. Jon S. von Tetzchner (jon@social.vivaldi.net)'s status on Monday, 05-Feb-2024 06:09:06 UTC Jon S. von Tetzchner

   Question : Do you know how Norwegians fill out their tax returns?
   Answer : They don´t.

   This is an oversimplification, but years ago Norwegians started to get pre-filled tax returns in the mail. Later they stopped getting them, but instead had to do an OK online. Now even that is not needed. No comment means it is is OK. You can rectify and modify details online, if needed.

   The reality is that the government already had most of the data needed for most individuals. Your salary is reported by the company you work for. Your bank details, including anything you have in your accounts, any loans, stocks, bonds, etc., is reported as well. Your kids are known as well. There might be details to add, but most is known. Why waste people´s time filling out details that are already known and risk people making mistakes?

   When will the US get there?

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   • David Lejeune (dkesserich@mastodon.gamedev.place)'s status on Monday, 05-Feb-2024 06:09:12 UTC David Lejeune

     in reply to

     @jon There have been multiple pilot programs along those lines in different states in the US, and the tax prep companies lobbied heavily against them and got any attempt to make it permanent killed.

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   • Leeloo (leeloo@techhub.social)'s status on Monday, 05-Feb-2024 06:09:15 UTC Leeloo

     in reply to

     • David Lejeune

     @jon @DKesserich
     I'm surprised that Norway only had the current system for more than 10 years, I'm 47 and my taxes were always prefilled.

     Perhaps you mean online for 10 years? That makes more sense, I barely noticed when we switched from paper to online, because that only changed how I didn't have to do anything. And there was a large overlap, with an additional phone based "press 1 to change your personal income" system as well.

     In 2008 I needed to make a change, and I had the option of doing it online.

     No changes means everything is correct has always been how it worked for me (Denmark).

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   • Jon S. von Tetzchner (jon@social.vivaldi.net)'s status on Monday, 05-Feb-2024 06:09:16 UTC Jon S. von Tetzchner

     in reply to

     • David Lejeune

     @DKesserich

     Norway has had the current system for more than 10 years...

   • garland (garland@social.seattle.wa.us)'s status on Monday, 05-Feb-2024 06:09:24 UTC garland

     in reply to

     @jon This is not done in the US on purpose. Anti-tax politicians and activists want the process of filling out tax forms to be as painful as possible.

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   • Elias Mårtenson (loke@functional.cafe)'s status on Monday, 05-Feb-2024 06:09:26 UTC Elias Mårtenson

     in reply to

     @jon Same here in Singapore. And if you want to make an amendment (like an extra deduction), you can log in to a webpage and fill it in.

     I just checked with an Indian colleague, and it was explained to me that they do it the same way. The employer send the information to the tax authority and everything is handled automatically. India also has different states, and they manage to do it where the US fails.

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   • Jon S. von Tetzchner (jon@social.vivaldi.net)'s status on Monday, 05-Feb-2024 06:20:25 UTC Jon S. von Tetzchner

     in reply to

     • Joe B

     @joeblubaugh , the US government knows just as much or even more. The only difference is whether the government tells you what it knows, so you can save time. That is all.

     Instead you fill in any blanks as needed, but for most there are no blanks to fill in. You select to do the standard deductions instead of itemized, and you are done.

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   • Joe B (joeblubaugh@hachyderm.io)'s status on Monday, 05-Feb-2024 06:20:31 UTC Joe B

     in reply to

     @jon I'm not terribly comfortable with the idea of the government knowing about literally all of my assets and cash flows. Is that really how it is in Norway?

     I'm fine with the mandatory reporting requirements in the US though (things like capital gains and interest reporting), which is generally enough to fill in a tax return properly, and the USGOV has it.

   • Sean Boyer 🇵🇸 FREE PALESTINE (sb@fed.sbcloud.cc)'s status on Monday, 05-Feb-2024 06:20:34 UTC Sean Boyer 🇵🇸 FREE PALESTINE

     in reply to

     @jon
     In Canada, we're literally beholden to tax preparation companies. They built an entire economy around this unnecessary work, and now the government maintains the redundancy at everyone's expense & annoyance.

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   • zbrando (zbrando@social.vivaldi.net)'s status on Monday, 05-Feb-2024 06:20:39 UTC zbrando

     in reply to

     @jon In Italy you have to fill the papers and it's so complicate (laws change every now and then) that you need the help of a professional. The system is like that because so the government can fine you for your errors and they give job to the accountants. 😩

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   • myherozero (myherozero@awaymessage.club)'s status on Monday, 05-Feb-2024 06:42:37 UTC myherozero

     in reply to

     @jon Never

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