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1. Eugen 🎄 (gargron@mastodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 05-May-2022 11:46:59 UTC Eugen 🎄

   I am reading the #Bluesky #ADX architecture outline. First impression is that it seems quite complicated. The topology looks a lot like the fediverse but everything is a Merkle tree and identity is tied to something that looks a lot like a blockchain.

   • Kevin Marks (kevinmarks@indieweb.social)'s status on Thursday, 05-May-2022 11:47:16 UTC Kevin Marks

     in reply to

     @Gargron I'm baffled that they (and you, come to that) still use webfinger instead of profile URLs

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   • Eugen 🎄 (gargron@mastodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 05-May-2022 11:47:17 UTC Eugen 🎄

     in reply to

     My perspective is that of an implementer, not a protocol designer. It does seem overcomplicated for benefits that I would consider neglible. I disagree the most with depending on a "DID Consortium" to be able to participate in the network...

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   • Jade (jay@cybre.space)'s status on Friday, 06-May-2022 00:06:17 UTC Jade

     in reply to

     • Trisha Lynn 🇵🇭 🇺🇸 🇨🇦

     @trishalynn @gargron Essentially a tree where each node includes a hash of its children. Useful if you want to look up a small piece of a big structure while verifying its integrity.

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   • Trisha Lynn 🇵🇭 🇺🇸 🇨🇦 (trishalynn@mastodon.sandwich.net)'s status on Friday, 06-May-2022 00:06:20 UTC Trisha Lynn 🇵🇭 🇺🇸 🇨🇦

     in reply to

     @Gargron Pardon my non-know-how, but what's a Merkle tree?

   • Humane Tech Now (humanetech@mastodon.social)'s status on Friday, 06-May-2022 00:06:32 UTC Humane Tech Now

     in reply to

     • Jade
     • Trisha Lynn 🇵🇭 🇺🇸 🇨🇦
     • James Renken

     @jrenken @jay @trishalynn

     Likely shows the influence of Paul Frazee who joined Bluesky as protocol engineer, formerly of Beaker Browser and DAT project, which is now Hypercore protocol.

     https://dat-ecosystem.org/

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   • James Renken (jrenken@mastodon.sandwich.net)'s status on Friday, 06-May-2022 00:06:35 UTC James Renken

     in reply to

     • Jade
     • Trisha Lynn 🇵🇭 🇺🇸 🇨🇦

     @jay @trishalynn Yep! We use a Merkle tree implementation for Certificate Transparency. It's clever and a great match for certain specific problems. But there are tradeoffs: complexity, and a painful amount of computation once you're at large scale.

   • ｔｏ⟁ｓｔ⟁ｌ (toastal@cybre.space)'s status on Friday, 06-May-2022 00:09:01 UTC ｔｏ⟁ｓｔ⟁ｌ

     in reply to

     @gargron The fact that it's MIT not (A)GPL, forge on Microsoft-owned GitHub, and not ActivityPub-compatible tells me all I need to know that user freedoms weren't the goal.

   • flesh roots :debian: 🍕 (fleshroots@social.linux.pizza)'s status on Friday, 06-May-2022 00:09:01 UTC flesh roots :debian: 🍕

     in reply to

     • ｔｏ⟁ｓｔ⟁ｌ

     @toastal @Gargron I've used GitHub for years before Microshit bought it, and because I want my work to be seen, I'm keeping it up there. I started trying to use GitLab primarily because it had free private repositories (which tbh I don't need) but it seems somewhat underfunded.
     I do have a Codeberg now which if I do anything fedi-related in the future it'll be done there.
     Not posting them because my irl name is attached to them 🙃

   • ｔｏ⟁ｓｔ⟁ｌ (toastal@cybre.space)'s status on Friday, 06-May-2022 00:09:36 UTC ｔｏ⟁ｓｔ⟁ｌ

     in reply to

     • flesh roots :debian: 🍕

     @fleshroots Yeah, the Codeberg / Gitea situations are really coming around! I've been on another alternative, Sourcehut, the last year and there's features I want on both platforms that it's hard to pick one and be completely satisfied.

     While the email-based structure is good, it seems a bridge too far for many committers which hurts Sourcehut, but Sourcehut has CI and an IRC bouncer. I really wish they supported AsciiDoc like Codeberg as well since Markdown is too limiting for 'good enough' documentation.

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   • Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅 (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Friday, 06-May-2022 00:10:40 UTC Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅

     in reply to

     • ｔｏ⟁ｓｔ⟁ｌ
     • flesh roots :debian: 🍕
     @toastal @fleshroots TIL Codeberg (gitea?) supports asciidoc. That's cool.
   • Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅 (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Friday, 06-May-2022 00:13:05 UTC Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅

     in reply to

     • ｔｏ⟁ｓｔ⟁ｌ
     • xutz
     @xutz @Gargron @toastal AGPL would prevent hosting proprietary post indexes / aggregators that derived from the AGPL code, is the accurate statement.
     
     That's a far narrower statement than yours.
   • xutz@mastodon.social's status on Friday, 06-May-2022 00:13:09 UTC xutz

     in reply to

     • ｔｏ⟁ｓｔ⟁ｌ

     @toastal @Gargron AGPL would prevent commercial companies from hosting post indexes / aggregators.

     ActivityPub can certainly be made to pull data from ADX, but seems incompatible with some of their goals

   • straw (straw@socks.pinnoto.org)'s status on Friday, 06-May-2022 00:13:33 UTC straw

     in reply to

     @Gargron the Ad in Adx stands for... Ad

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   • Silmathoron (silmathoron@floss.social)'s status on Friday, 06-May-2022 00:14:03 UTC Silmathoron

     in reply to

     • Matthijs De Smedt

     @anji
     I might be wrong but I thought that was how Hubzilla's nomadic identity worked.
     @Gargron

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   • Matthijs De Smedt (anji@mastodon.social)'s status on Friday, 06-May-2022 00:14:09 UTC Matthijs De Smedt

     in reply to

     @Gargron I wonder why there's no federated "microblogging" protocol where users simply subscribe to a public key, and see new messages (+user info) in their feed for any new post which arrives to their server which is signed with the corresponding private key...

     I am no expert, but why does decentralized messaging have to be any more complicated? It don't understand the purpose of those added complexities in ADX, etc.

   • Peter Makholm (pmakholm@mastodon.technology)'s status on Friday, 06-May-2022 00:14:37 UTC Peter Makholm

     in reply to

     @Gargron At least they can delete content by rewriting the Merkle tree. So it is not fully immutable crypto-bro stuff.

     It is a per user Merkle tree, so it feels more like git than a unified #ADX blockchain.

     But the difference between git (that I like) and blockchain (that I dislike) is quite fuzzy.

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   • EricCarroll (ericcarroll@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 07-May-2022 05:59:52 UTC EricCarroll

     in reply to

     @Gargron Can't we all just use the appropriate data structure?

     (blockchain bros to my block list)

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