Rysiekúr Memesson
The #Ukraine situation is getting heated. There are fedi discussions about this, and there will be more.
It is worth being mindful of the fact that there are plenty (if not a majority) of Russians who do not condone nor support the aggressive course of action taken by the Kremlin.
They have protested in the thousands on the streets when they were denied fair elections. Many have paid the price for trying to have a voice.
It's easy to drop into using "Russians" as a mental shortcut.
Let's not.
Rysiekúr Memesson
This is important, so reboosting myself, because shit like this is proposed:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/stuartanderson/2022/02/27/critics-reject-rep-swalwells-idea-to-expel-all-russian-students/
Russian people are not the aggressor. Students studying in the West are not a threat. Putin is.
And the biggest threat to him is an educated population able and willing to govern itself.
Almost 5000 Russians got arrested in Russia for anti-war and pro-Ukraine protests.
Russian people are not the aggressor. Punishing them (as opposed to Putin) is only going to make matters worse.
Rysiekúr Memesson
@finn pretty sure my timeline over the last few days clearly proves that statement wrong.
I propose empathizing with people back at home, who do not support this war, do not condone this war, who protest and get arrested for it.
And who might help this stop.
Antagonizing them just because they happen to be on the other side of a line in sand drawn by people like Putin doesn't strike me like a good strategy.
Rysiekúr Memesson
@finn identifying uniformed services with a population, especially a population effectively subjugated by said uniformed services, is seriously uncool, and quite counter-productive in the current situation.
finn
finn
finn
Artha
@finn But proves nothing.
Statistics are meaningless. Single numbers. With no context.
There's heavy indoctrination in Russia. Some of these people believe what to others may appear as lies. Not everybody does. And like I said, it's heroics. This does affect statistics heavily, and makes me believe that 2000 in Russia is worth much more than tens or hundreds of thousands in, say, Germany.
I, for one, contribute what I can — and I'm participating in a charity action for Ukrainian immigrants. Would I fight in a war against Russia? Maybe. Would I make a mostly meaningless move that risks me getting arrested and beaten? No.
Artha
@finn Pfffff
Artha
@finn Bullshit. Like I said there were two thousands already arrested, it is a number, and a larger one that one could expect. It's not as easily done as said. If I were a Russian in Russia, I'd have no idea what would I do. I don't even know how to start a riot, and not many do.
And still, what do Russians living in the US have to do with all this?
finn
pthenq1
It has to be done. They are free to go and depose Putin if they want to return to study in Freeland.
Cancelation works
Rysiekúr Memesson
@pthenq1 well gotta say, that's a remarkably shitty take.
finn
Artha
@finn Does that make every alive Russian out there evil?
finn
Artha
1. Emigration isn't easy. I don't know about your situation in this case, but usually it involves changing job, learning new languages, moving to a new house, doing lots of paperwork… Lots of stuff overall.
2. Protests. There are protesting Russians. Over 2000 arrested. It's illegal to do and there are consequences. As someone said over here, heroism is appreciated, but should not be expected.
finn
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Artha
@finn Do they have a choice?
Katharsisdrill
@rysiek - The perfect opportunity for some senseless Russophobia. What a jerk.
Artha
@finn They're saying, not every "Russian" is an armed soldier going to fight in Ukraine. Nationality doesn't carry so much meaning, and not every Russian supports the war.
finn
finn
CC
Sorry @rysiek
I don't think you get to slip "kremlin aggression" in there as it it were a given and then claim questioning of said as off topic. Funny, I had you pegged for a man of better integrity, but it seems there are deep wounds that are far from overcome in ex-USSR, which I do not (obviously) understand fully. It just seems a shame given that the "clear and present" danger does not really seem to be at Kremlin. @tsvety
Rysiekúr Memesson
@tsvety yes. But that's not the topic of this thread.
tsvety
@rysiek is there any real evidence for anything happening?
Rysiekúr Memesson
@publius nationalities are social constructs. Borders are lines in the sand. It's all make-believe, apart from human suffering.
publius
As a cosmopolitan myself, I try to acknowledge the weaknesses of my own intellectual position.
Nationality is a social construct, but we humans are social animals after all. I am an avowed opponent of "Blut und Boden" ideologies, & not shy in saying that the principal purpose of borders is the control of those within them, but I am somewhat more sympathetic to the concept of "nationality" in terms of shared cultural background, narratives, metaphors, et cetera.
publius
Indeed, one doesn't even need to be Russian, per se.
Stalin was a Georgian, and yet typified the "Autokrator of All the Russias" as purely as anyone since Ivan III of Muscovy first conceived of the title.
The_Gibson
@rysiek I am fortunate to count several Russians as friends. They are worried too. Many indeed do not want this.
I want this to end in the best way possible.
DC Rat
@thegibson @rysiek In the 80s many of us who were teenagers and early 20s made a real effort to talk about “the Soviet government” or similar. In the hopes they would afford us the same grace. If the majority of the population or even a plurality in any nation had a real say in things there would be much less bullshit in general.
Asimech
@rysiek I always have to wonder about the logic of "let's make sure everybody from a country only have access to their country's propaganda, that'll teach their dictator!"
JimmyD_243
@rysiek I’m new here; my first response. Great comments, particularly regarding students.
Rysiekúr Memesson
@JimmyD_243 thanks.
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