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@drak indeed, as you say, it's mostly "social pressure", not religion *itself* that does this. But it does happen in both Islamic and Jewish communities. OTH there are religions that it's not even possible to convert to (and where only marriage within the same religion is allowed) - like for instance the 'Parsi' in India (who have an essentially Zoroastrian religion)
- Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) repeated this.
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@lohang what do you mean by "general conduct"?
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@hosh that may apply (only) to the situation of Muslims in France (it certainly doesn't describe Muslims world-wide). But Charlie Hebdo equally satirizes Jews and Catholics - it's not as though it's singling out Muslims.
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@hosh I am also puzzled by what 'state and media propaganda' this refers to.
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@lohang I don't get it. Charlie Hebdo is *satire* - a unique French flavor of it previously seen in Le Canard Enchainé. They are relentlessly championing freedom of expression. Satirizing equally Muslims, Catholics and Jews they're hardly 'mocking the poor and powerless' but - much more - the rich and powerful.
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@lohang I don't even get where they get the idea that Charlie Hebdo 'mocked the poor and powerless'. No sense. It's satire! They mocked (mock!) *everyone*.
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@lohang I read that. It's nonsense. They don't even understand what satire is, or why Charlie Hebdo's satire matters. In fact, it's an example 'media propaganda' - something they supposedly reject but practice themselves.
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@hosh the WSS Painstakingly believes they mock only Muslims (which is totally untrue), and simply doesn't understand *satire*. As a result that whole article is nonsensical. As a result they also misunderstand the "je suis Charlie" slogan which is an expression of support for what Charlie Hebdo stands for: Freedom of expression and freedom of the press. And the fact that such satire is allowed in France - as a direct result of the French revolution.
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@hosh btw 'he poked fun at a majır religion' is wrong in two ways: 1. there is no 'he', Charlie Hebdo is a weekly magazine with many famous contributors. 2. The magazine is poking fun at *all* major religions. The portrayal of the magazine as attacking Islam is deliberate (or grossly ignorant) selection of reality to support its propaganda.
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@hosh if all you know is 'crude caricatures' then what is your source? Or sources? Do you even question those sources?
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@lohang interesting article - but a missed chance by *also* only showing Charlie Hebdo cartoons that mock Muslims, and not also ones that mock Jews and Catholics. Again, a selection of reality that distorts it. Why? I'm getting sick of all this unbalanced 'reporting'.
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@mk Religions and politics. The name Charlie Hebdo is a joke about Charles de Gaulle. They really are equal opportunity satirists.
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@expatpaul no it's not - it's named after cartoon character Charlie of the peanuts.
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@mk According to Wikipedia "Charlie took its name from Charlie Brown... and was also an inside joke about Charles de Gaulle."
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@mk Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Hebdo#Early_years
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@expatpaul unfortunately, Le Monde won't let me in when following the reference link for the Charles de Gaulle angle (claiming "I" have visited more than 'x' times, blissfully unaware that mobile phone IP addresses are necessarily dynamic). #idjits
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Title page of the newest issue of #CharlieHebdo: http://taz.de/!152792/
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@drak ah, excellent! I'm not even goin g to try to get my hands on this issue: only 500 copies have been allocated to the Netherlands, one bookseller had an order for 200! #fegedaboudit
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@drak As far as I know, only Christians do that! I've traveled in many muslim countries, visited mosques, nobody ever asked me to even consider becoming a Muslim. Same in Buddhist (not strictly a religion) and Hindu areas. Same with Native Americans (Lakota, many tribes in Latin America).
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@drak not the same thing as prosytelizing or "mission" though; and is your friend now Muslim or Jewish?
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requiring same religion on marriage spreads the religion through family ties via social pressure - the catholic church gave up on that.
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@drak still, Christianity is the only religion I know of where people go out prosytelising (unrelated to social institutions like marriage), and where such a thing as "mission" exists (which unfortunately does both damage and good)
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@mk @drak If mandatory same-religion marriage is part of a particular religion's meme cluster, that religion *is* doing it.
Temporary Marjolein
Paul Pritchard
drak
Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠)
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