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1. Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅 (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Sunday, 02-Jan-2022 10:27:55 UTC Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅
   Hong Kong has detected dozens of covid cases, all imported. Extensive contact tracing and mandatory testing has been performed and no local spread has been detected. It is suspected to be mostly omicron strain. Restrictions for air cargo personnel have been tightened. People who can work from home are recommended to do so.
   
   Over the last two years HK has had 12667 known covid cases and 213 confirmed covid deaths.
   
   www.coronavirus.gov.hk/eng/
   
   #hongkong #covid
   • Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅 (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Sunday, 02-Jan-2022 12:26:36 UTC Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅

     in reply to

     • nosat
     @nosat It is the result of action.
   • nosat (nosat@liberdon.com)'s status on Sunday, 02-Jan-2022 12:26:37 UTC nosat

     in reply to

     @clacke

     213 deaths is insignificant from a public health perspective, no action is required life should go back to normal with resignations and prosecutions of public servants that caused more harm with oppressive restrictions.

   • Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅 (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Sunday, 02-Jan-2022 12:48:18 UTC Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅

     in reply to
     Had the rest of the world acted on the first warning like the people of HK did even before their government did, there wouldn't have been an omicron strain to import.
   • Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅 (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Sunday, 02-Jan-2022 13:52:03 UTC Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅

     in reply to

     • nosat
     @nosat That video is wildly inaccurate. To just take the worst lie, a bad influenza season kills 1000 people in Sweden and ends in February. The covid-19 season never quite ended and will soon pass 15000 Swedes. Flu seasons don't generally swamp intensive care units and delay other urgent care.
     
     In Hong Kong, thanks to awareness and measures since 2003, flu deaths in any given year are kept at around a tenth of what Sweden has in any given year. These two years flu deaths have been near zero and covid deaths have been a hundredth of Sweden's.
   • nosat (nosat@liberdon.com)'s status on Sunday, 02-Jan-2022 13:52:04 UTC nosat

     in reply to

     @clacke 🤣 , if I had not robbed you of your wallet then someone else would have robbed you of your wallet and car, so you need to be thankful for my actions.

     Corona - The simple truth in under 6 minutes
     https://peertube.biz/w/59cDzfpMKq1KhTXmxuAmh8

   • Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅 (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Sunday, 02-Jan-2022 13:54:57 UTC Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅

     in reply to

     • nosat
     @nosat For the people saying "it's only old people": I'd like to keep my parents a few years more, please. I'm glad that Sweden at least had a lot of people working from home and vaccinated everyone who were willing.
     
     Comparisons are tricky to make for sure. We don't understand why countries have wildly different figures. Sweden claims it didn't do too bad, but that's comparing to the countries that did even worse due to bad luck, unknown factors or postponed measures.
     
     The closest to a natural experiment we can get is comparing Sweden to other Nordic countries. When doing that, Sweden did noticably worse.
   • Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅 (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Sunday, 02-Jan-2022 14:22:09 UTC Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅

     in reply to

     • nosat
     @nosat In Sweden there were excess deaths on similar levels as the covid deaths in the first year, but in the second year you'd get a "scorched earth" effect because so many old people died, so in the second year the net effect was about balanced out. Once the pandemic is past us, Sweden will have a deficiency in deaths as the remaining people will have a higher projected longevity.
     
     That doesn't mean nothing, that means thousands of life-years lost.
   • nosat (nosat@liberdon.com)'s status on Sunday, 02-Jan-2022 14:22:10 UTC nosat

     in reply to

     @clacke "These two years flu deaths have been near zero and covid deaths have been a hundredth"

     This is because flu deaths were fraudulently marked as covid deaths.

     You need to look at aggregate death stats to see that there was no spike in excess deaths, which means there was no pandemic.

   • LinuxWalt (@lnxw48a1) {3EB165E0-5BB1-45D2-9E7D-93B31821F864} (lnxw48a1@nu.federati.net)'s status on Sunday, 02-Jan-2022 14:25:11 UTC LinuxWalt (@lnxw48a1) {3EB165E0-5BB1-45D2-9E7D-93B31821F864}

     in reply to
     > This is because flu deaths were fraudulently marked as covid deaths.
     
     > You need to look at aggregate death stats to see that there was no spike in excess deaths, which means there was no pandemic.
     
     -- https://liberdon.com/@nosat/107553211504913832
     
     First of all, the excess deaths thing is wrong. Even the US Census Bureau measured a slowing in population growth due to the unexpectedly early passing of hundreds of thousands of Americans.
     
     But secondly, they are now doing full testing for influenza as well as for coronavirus. So they get an accurate diagnosis of which one it is. It just turns out that the same things that help suppress COVID-19's spread also suppress flu's spread:
     
     * masks
     * hand washing
     * avoiding crowded places
     
     If I had to guess, the biggest factor in the reduction in flu is not having kids present in overcrowded schools.
   • LinuxWalt (@lnxw48a1) {3EB165E0-5BB1-45D2-9E7D-93B31821F864} (lnxw48a1@nu.federati.net)'s status on Sunday, 02-Jan-2022 14:27:45 UTC LinuxWalt (@lnxw48a1) {3EB165E0-5BB1-45D2-9E7D-93B31821F864}

     in reply to

     • LinuxWalt (@lnxw48a1) {3EB165E0-5BB1-45D2-9E7D-93B31821F864}
     I'd almost forgotten how far down the hole of creative imagination people can go in support of their pre-assigned views (in this case, views about COVID-19, masks, vaccines ... and whether governments should have responded to the threat).
   • valhalla (valhalla@social.gl-como.it)'s status on Sunday, 02-Jan-2022 14:34:45 UTC valhalla

     in reply to

     • nosat
     @clacke @nosatIn Italy there have been 15% excess deaths in 2020 compared to the average in 2015-2019.
     
     And this includes the fact that deaths in the age range 0-49 was *lower* than average, with significant less traffic and work accidents.
     
     Source in Italian: www.istat.it/it/files//2021/03…
     
     That report was published on 5th March 2021, I'd expect a similar report for 2021 to arrive around the same time this year.
     Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅 likes this.
   • Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅 (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Sunday, 02-Jan-2022 14:48:37 UTC Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅

     in reply to

     • nosat
     @nosat The graph in the thumbnail shows that interventions came too late to be effective, which is exactly what I said.
   • nosat (nosat@liberdon.com)'s status on Monday, 03-Jan-2022 00:42:31 UTC nosat

     in reply to

     @clacke It shows interventions came after the peak, meaning it was already in natural decline.

   • Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅 (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Monday, 03-Jan-2022 00:42:31 UTC Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅

     in reply to

     • nosat
     @nosat Exactly, so they couldn't lower the peak and save lives, unlike Hong Kong, which acted in January.
   • valhalla (valhalla@social.gl-como.it)'s status on Monday, 03-Jan-2022 11:06:03 UTC valhalla

     in reply to

     • valhalla
     • nosat
     @clacke @nosat btw, what do you mean “putting everyone one ventilators”?
     
     in the first few months many people died because they started to informally try to keep the very old (80+) from entering hospitals to save the limited spaces for the merely old (60-80) who had bigger chances of survival, and there was a lack of medical staff per ICU compared to the standard (the former no longer happens, the latter I believe still does).
     Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅 likes this.
   • nosat (nosat@liberdon.com)'s status on Monday, 03-Jan-2022 11:06:04 UTC nosat

     in reply to

     • valhalla

     @valhalla @clacke Is there an English version?

     You piked the country with the highest death rate in the world. Italy also has the highest elderly population in Europe. Most countries experience no or minimal change in death rate.

     They were killing old people in mass by putting everyone one ventilators in Italy.

     You need to look at aggregate avg for the word or continent an you will see there was no change.

   • nosat (nosat@liberdon.com)'s status on Monday, 03-Jan-2022 11:30:30 UTC nosat

     in reply to

     @clacke This is speculation, have you compared previous flu seasons for HK vs other places, it is possible HK always has lower flu death rates.

     They acted early because they had protests and it was a great excuse to implement martial law.

   • Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅 (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Monday, 03-Jan-2022 11:30:30 UTC Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅

     in reply to

     • nosat
     @nosat Hong Kong normally has about 10% the flu deaths Sweden has, because HK people and institutions are just more careful. In the pandemic HK has had less than 2% the covid deaths Sweden has, even though HK was hit first.
     
     Until the second or third wave it looked like the pandemic would actually save lives, as the measures stopped the flu season in its tracks.
     
     When the epidemic hit, before it was a pandemic, people masked up and limited contact immediately, without a word from the government. Then the companies had people work 100% from home where possibly, while figuring out a measured strategy.
     
     Limiting outdoor crowds was the authoritarian move, but that came much later. Border controls weren't instituted for weeks, even in the face of medical unions demanding border controls, because the government was worried about the economy.
   • Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅 (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Monday, 03-Jan-2022 11:40:46 UTC Santa Claes 🇸🇪🇭🇰🎅

     in reply to

     • nosat
     @nosat Ok, you just lost the last tendril of a connection to solid ground. Germ theory and virology are the rock foundation of longevity increases in the 20th century.
     
     It was interesting talking to you.
   • nosat (nosat@liberdon.com)'s status on Monday, 03-Jan-2022 11:40:47 UTC nosat

     in reply to

     @clacke That is a nice narrative you have created for yourself. Have you considered that people in HK are just healthier in general and the severe flu (covid) did not affect them as much just like every year.

     My issue is that person to person virus transmission as never been scientifically proven, it is just a theory.

     Virology in general is pseudoscience, having no scientific basis.

     https://noagendatube.com/videos/watch/23765a3e-aa89-45d5-889a-d1d59e108df9

   • LinuxWalt (@lnxw48a1) {3EB165E0-5BB1-45D2-9E7D-93B31821F864} (lnxw48a1@nu.federati.net)'s status on Monday, 03-Jan-2022 13:04:24 UTC LinuxWalt (@lnxw48a1) {3EB165E0-5BB1-45D2-9E7D-93B31821F864}

     in reply to
     https://liberdon.com/@nosat/107553198320128808
     
     And this is what was behind that whole day or two of conversation.
   • nosat (nosat@liberdon.com)'s status on Monday, 03-Jan-2022 18:20:10 UTC nosat

     in reply to

     • valhalla
     • Loweel

     @loweel @clacke @valhalla

     name calling and proclaiming your high intelligence does not debunk the video

   • Loweel (loweel@boseburo.ddns.net)'s status on Monday, 03-Jan-2022 18:20:11 UTC Loweel

     in reply to

     • valhalla
     • nosat
     @nosat @clacke @valhalla
     
     oh, look, I studied math , and the numbers you show in the video make no sense.
     
     Must be an idiot, without any skill in statistics, who made the video.
   • Loweel (loweel@boseburo.ddns.net)'s status on Monday, 03-Jan-2022 18:20:12 UTC Loweel

     in reply to

     • valhalla
     • nosat

     @nosat @clacke @valhalla

     Oh, look, there is a video on peertube saying things.

     Incredible. Must be true.

   • nosat (nosat@liberdon.com)'s status on Monday, 03-Jan-2022 18:20:12 UTC nosat

     in reply to

     • valhalla
     • Loweel

     @loweel @clacke @valhalla oh look there is a guy on TV with a suit on, must be true

   • nosat (nosat@liberdon.com)'s status on Monday, 03-Jan-2022 18:20:13 UTC nosat

     in reply to

     • valhalla
     • Loweel

     @loweel @clacke @valhalla then take yours off and start looking at evidence

     Pfizer vaccine trial data shows the injection has no benefit
     https://peertube.biz/w/orf98w7YoB3uv8wXjGQ6z9

   • Loweel (loweel@boseburo.ddns.net)'s status on Monday, 03-Jan-2022 18:20:14 UTC Loweel

     in reply to

     • valhalla
     • nosat

     @nosat @clacke @valhalla

     well, you know, Italy is the fashion country. Tin foil hat is not that popular.

   • Loweel (loweel@boseburo.ddns.net)'s status on Monday, 03-Jan-2022 18:20:15 UTC Loweel

     in reply to

     • valhalla
     • nosat

     @nosat @valhalla @clacke keep ongoing, pls. Italians are very happy when some stranger explains them what they have seen, telling them how it was according with local TV.

     really, they will love you.

   • nosat (nosat@liberdon.com)'s status on Monday, 03-Jan-2022 18:20:15 UTC nosat

     in reply to

     • valhalla
     • Loweel

     @loweel @clacke @valhalla and they will suffer more if they do not wake up to the fraud