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1. Hallå Kitteh (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Thursday, 09-Nov-2017 13:12:58 UTC Hallå Kitteh

   • Bob Mottram
   • LinuxWalt (@lnxw48a1) {3EB165E0-5BB1-45D2-9E7D-93B31821F864}
   @bob @lnxw48a1 There is a grudge between Moglen and Kuhn.
   • Hallå Kitteh (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Tuesday, 07-Nov-2017 08:55:54 UTC Hallå Kitteh
     > the Conservancy, which was originally established and wholly funded by SFLC, and still bears our name
     
     The Software Freedom part. Moglen wants to own Software Freedom now.
     
     https://softwarefreedom.org/blog/2017/nov/06/conservancy-stmt/
     Stephen Michael Kellat likes this.
     Stephen Michael Kellat repeated this.
   • Hallå Kitteh (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Tuesday, 07-Nov-2017 09:25:36 UTC Hallå Kitteh

     in reply to
     > That’s not some more aggressive choice that the holder has made; it is not an attack, let alone a “bizarre” attack, on anybody.
     
     It is bizarre if the entity challenging the trademark is one of the founders of the entity holding the trademark, probably had input into the naming, and initially didn't challenge it for over a decade.
     
     It's not like they discovered that hey, here's this organization we never heard of and they're using a name similar to ours. Somebody should have told us!
     Stephen Michael Kellat likes this.
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   • Hallå Kitteh (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Tuesday, 07-Nov-2017 09:29:36 UTC Hallå Kitteh

     in reply to
     > Any project working with the Conservancy that feels in any way at risk should contact us. We will immediately work with them to put in place measures fully ensuring that they face no costs and no risks in this situation.
     
     Nice fiscal sponsor you've got there. Would be a shame if something happened to it.
     Stephen Michael Kellat likes this.
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   • Hallå Kitteh (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Tuesday, 07-Nov-2017 10:21:20 UTC Hallå Kitteh

     in reply to
     > We recognize this pattern in their conduct from other situations.
     
     That refers to when the SLC as a last resort, after years of prodding and negotiation, couldn't see another way to resolve the VMKernel situation than taking VMWare to court, with which the SFLC disagreed.
     Stephen Michael Kellat likes this.
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   • Hallå Kitteh (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Thursday, 09-Nov-2017 01:15:20 UTC Hallå Kitteh

     in reply to
     There's a great overview of the forces behind the lawsuit in the comments to https://lwn.net/Articles/738046/ .
     
     In particular, Bruce Perens provides a timeline of events at https://lwn.net/Articles/738109/ .
     
     lobstrors are discussing it at gsvdqe/sflc_files_bizarre_legal_action_against .
   • Hallå Kitteh (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Thursday, 09-Nov-2017 01:15:41 UTC Hallå Kitteh

     in reply to
     https://lobste.rs/s/gsvdqe/sflc_files_bizarre_legal_action_against
   • Hallå Kitteh (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Thursday, 09-Nov-2017 01:35:23 UTC Hallå Kitteh

     in reply to
     Moglen's speech that basically proclaims his rift with Kuhn is here:
     
     https://softwarefreedom.org/resources/2016/whither-copyleft.html
     
     > But some of my angry friends, dear friends, friends I really care for, have come to the conclusion that they’re on a jihad for free software.
     
     > And I will say this after decades of work—whatever else will be the drawbacks in other areas of life—the problem in our neighborhood is that jihad does not scale.
     
     > What we have been hearing this afternoon from the lawyers I have been friends and colleagues and occasional professional adversaries with over these decades is that in the industrial use of free software scale is what matters.
     
     I was shocked when I heard him say that. And that's why I wasn't shocked when I heard about this escalating to a frivolous lawsuit. Only sad.
   • Hallå Kitteh (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Thursday, 09-Nov-2017 03:45:16 UTC Hallå Kitteh

     • LinuxWalt (@lnxw48a1) {3EB165E0-5BB1-45D2-9E7D-93B31821F864}
     @lnxw48a1 The Linux Foundation.
   • Hallå Kitteh (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Thursday, 09-Nov-2017 03:45:53 UTC Hallå Kitteh

     in reply to

     • LinuxWalt (@lnxw48a1) {3EB165E0-5BB1-45D2-9E7D-93B31821F864}
     @lnxw48a1 (Largest individual donor)
   • Hallå Kitteh (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Thursday, 09-Nov-2017 03:47:32 UTC Hallå Kitteh

     in reply to

     • LinuxWalt (@lnxw48a1) {3EB165E0-5BB1-45D2-9E7D-93B31821F864}
     @lnxw48a1
     
     > For the year ended January 31, 2016, approximately 72% of support was received from four donors, the largest of which represented 27% of the total.
     
     https://lwn.net/Articles/738054/
   • Stephen Michael Kellat (alpacaherder@quitter.se)'s status on Thursday, 09-Nov-2017 04:48:23 UTC Stephen Michael Kellat

     • LinuxWalt (@lnxw48a1) {3EB165E0-5BB1-45D2-9E7D-93B31821F864}
     @lnxw48a1 @clacke RRA98 Section 1203 says I have to stay quiet about certain matters in open fora.  My correct key is at pad.lv/~skellat ...
   • Hallå Kitteh (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Thursday, 09-Nov-2017 06:22:47 UTC Hallå Kitteh

     in reply to

     • Stephen Michael Kellat
     • LinuxWalt (@lnxw48a1) {3EB165E0-5BB1-45D2-9E7D-93B31821F864}
     @alpacaherder @lnxw48a1 It's ... probably for the best.
   • Hallå Kitteh (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Thursday, 09-Nov-2017 10:26:07 UTC Hallå Kitteh

     • Bob Mottram
     • LinuxWalt (@lnxw48a1) {3EB165E0-5BB1-45D2-9E7D-93B31821F864}
     @bob @lnxw48a1 I think this is the extent of their reasoning that we will see: The SF stem of the SFC and the SFLC makes them confusingly similar, without a word about what makes today different from last year, or from a decade ago, when the SFLC helped file the very paperwork that created the organization with the name that they now suddenly find confusing.
   • Hallå Kitteh (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Thursday, 09-Nov-2017 10:27:21 UTC Hallå Kitteh

     in reply to

     • Bob Mottram
     • LinuxWalt (@lnxw48a1) {3EB165E0-5BB1-45D2-9E7D-93B31821F864}
     @bob @lnxw48a1 Estoppel comes to mind. Someone also mentioned "unclean hands", but I'm not sure what that concept means yet.
   • Hallå Kitteh (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Thursday, 09-Nov-2017 10:35:39 UTC Hallå Kitteh

     • Bob Mottram
     • LinuxWalt (@lnxw48a1) {3EB165E0-5BB1-45D2-9E7D-93B31821F864}
     @bob @lnxw48a1 They claim that negotiation was impossible because the SFC made themselves unavailable. It's he said she said.
   • Hallå Kitteh (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Thursday, 09-Nov-2017 13:14:11 UTC Hallå Kitteh

     in reply to

     • Bob Mottram
     • LinuxWalt (@lnxw48a1) {3EB165E0-5BB1-45D2-9E7D-93B31821F864}
     @bob @lnxw48a1 If I have read between the lines correctly over the years, SFC was a way for them to not have to work together.
   • Hallå Kitteh (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Thursday, 09-Nov-2017 13:17:11 UTC Hallå Kitteh

     in reply to

     • Bob Mottram
     • LinuxWalt (@lnxw48a1) {3EB165E0-5BB1-45D2-9E7D-93B31821F864}
     @bob @lnxw48a1 At the FSF it seems Kuhn has gained prominence and Moglen has made himself unwelcome.
   • Hallå Kitteh (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Thursday, 09-Nov-2017 13:23:34 UTC Hallå Kitteh

     in reply to

     • Bob Mottram
     • LinuxWalt (@lnxw48a1) {3EB165E0-5BB1-45D2-9E7D-93B31821F864}
     @bob @lnxw48a1 Caveat: This is all tea leaves, I don't know anyone personally and don't have any insider info.
     
     What Bruce Perens and Greg K-H posted on LWN confirms part of what I inferred.
   • Hallå Kitteh (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Friday, 10-Nov-2017 11:25:33 UTC Hallå Kitteh

     in reply to
     Here's the conclusion of the legal response.
     
     > AFFIRMATIVE DEFENSES
     > 1. Petitioner’s claim fails to state a claim upon which relief can be granted.
     > 1. Petitioner’s claim is barred by the doctrine of unclean hands.
     > 2. Petitioner’s claim is barred by the doctrine of laches.
     > 3. Petitioner’s claim is barred by the doctrine of estoppel.
     > 4. Petitioner’s claim is barred by the doctrine of acquiescence.
     
     So as a layperson I figured out at least one of those, not bad. :-D
     
     http://ttabvue.uspto.gov/ttabvue/v?pno=92066968&pty=CAN&eno=5
     
     To understand the whole document, which is mostly terse references to the claims made in the original petition, that petition is here:
     
     http://ttabvue.uspto.gov/ttabvue/v?pno=92066968&pty=CAN&eno=1
     
     
     A little bit more on what the response means here:
     
     https://communityovercode.com/2017/11/legal-issues-software-freedom/
     
     Karl Fogel's excellent insights, as someone who knows the people involved:
     
     http://www.rants.org/2017/11/conservancy_sflc_dispute/
     
     Also, I noticed that the SFC's legal counsel in these proceedings is Pamela Chestek! She has been in Free Software law for quite some time, and you may remember her from talks such as https://social.heldscal.la/url/937238 . :-)
   • Hallå Kitteh (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Friday, 10-Nov-2017 12:28:19 UTC Hallå Kitteh

     in reply to
     The Karl Fogel link /via https://identi.ca/kfogel/note/Gx5lA2bOQPCSj_yk4V30Dg
   • Hallå Kitteh (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Monday, 13-Nov-2017 19:53:30 UTC Hallå Kitteh

     in reply to
     #sfc #sflc #sflcvssfc #bizarre
   • Hallå Kitteh (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Monday, 13-Nov-2017 20:55:46 UTC Hallå Kitteh

     in reply to

     • mjg59
     "Eben Moglen is no longer a friend of the free software community"
     
     https://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/49370.html
     
     > his very public association with the FSF caused many people to assume that these positions were held by the FSF and the FSF were forced into the position of publicly stating that they disagreed with legal positions held by their general counsel.
     
     > Eben made legal threats towards another project with ties to FSF. These threats were based on a license interpretation that ran contrary to how free software licenses had been interpreted by the community for decades, and was made without any prior discussion with the FSF.
     
     > At Libreplanet earlier this year he made direct threats against an attendee - this was reported as a violation of the conference's anti-harassment policy.
     
     
     /by @mjg59
   • Hallå Kitteh (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Monday, 13-Nov-2017 21:08:21 UTC Hallå Kitteh

     in reply to

     • mjg59
     Note: The license advice is a public matter.[0] The other things I trust on @mjg59's honor and because they fit in between the lines when digesting the events of latest two years.
     
     And now I was reminded[1] that I haven't watched that "A Year in the Life of a DPL"[2] talk yet.
     
     [0] https://www.softwarefreedom.org/resources/2016/linux-kernel-cddl.html
     [1] https://lwn.net/Articles/719610/
     [2] https://social.heldscal.la/url/950021
   • Hallå Kitteh (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Friday, 17-Nov-2017 09:39:18 UTC Hallå Kitteh

     in reply to

     • Dr. Roy Schestowitz (罗伊) ✅
     Neil McGovern, the ex-DPL in the "... Life of a DPL" above, has published his views on the #SFC #SFLC debacle:
     
     https://blog.halon.org.uk/2017/11/software-freedom-law-center-and-conservancy/
     
     > I’ve now become a lot more jaded about exactly who, and which organisations hold our best interests at heart.
     
     /via http://lunduke.com/2017/11/13/software-freedom-law-center-vs-software-freedom-conservancy/ , which is a pretty good summary of everything so far.
     
     /via @schestowitz https://mastodon.technology/@schestowitz/99018818814237712