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1. Hallå Kitteh (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Tuesday, 27-Jun-2017 07:52:23 UTC Hallå Kitteh

   • Danyl Strype
   • Goddess of Desire
   @dtluna @strypey If one is anticapitalist, mainstream economics is sufficient for setting a few things straight.
   • Hallå Kitteh (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Thursday, 29-Jun-2017 03:30:12 UTC Hallå Kitteh

     • Danyl Strype
     • Goddess of Desire
     @strypey @dtluna You're being unnecessarily difficult. You know what economic ideas are the mainstream.
     
     Nobel Prize* economics, international headlines economics, Krugman economics.
     
     There's even a http://enwp.org/Mainstream_economics to define it:
     
     > Mainstream economics has been associated with neoclassical economics and with the neoclassical synthesis, which combines neoclassical methods and a Keynesian approach to macroeconomics.
     
     There you go.
     
     * Not actually a Nobel Prize
   • Hallå Kitteh (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Thursday, 29-Jun-2017 03:32:02 UTC Hallå Kitteh

     in reply to

     • Danyl Strype
     • Goddess of Desire
     @strypey @dtluna
     
     Economy is a soft science, difficult to verify against reality, but there are ways to tease things out through careful statistical analysis and lucky minimal pairs that on occasion provide spontaneous opportunity for comparison.
     
     Marxism did it the grand way, took half the world by revolution and ran a huge out-of-control (yet it had a control group) experiment, making it the only economic theory to have been thoroughly debunked.
     
     Heterodoxy is the alternative to the mainstream orthodoxy. Austrians belong in this category.
     
     Marxism is the alternative to reality.
   • Hallå Kitteh (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Thursday, 29-Jun-2017 03:51:11 UTC Hallå Kitteh

     • Danyl Strype
     • Goddess of Desire
     @strypey @dtluna Sounds like a good contribution to the further refinement of accepted economic theory. Will have a look later.
   • Hallå Kitteh (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Thursday, 29-Jun-2017 05:33:24 UTC Hallå Kitteh

     • Danyl Strype
     @strypey We cannot build knowledge on wild speculation if we want to make any progress in the one lifetime we have. We need to build on a valid foundation, so that we can reach further.
     
     It is important to challenge the existing knowledge base, but to discard it without evidence equally strong as that supporting the existing models is just arrogance.
     
     What we know changes over time as we learn more, but we do not learn in a vacuum, unless we want to be doomed to re-discover knowledge already known in the 17th century, or discover nothing at all.
   • Hallå Kitteh (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Thursday, 29-Jun-2017 06:02:37 UTC Hallå Kitteh

     • Danyl Strype
     @strypey Luckily we have shifted away from theology as arbiter of which observations match reality. You may scoff at *that*, but if you don't see the difference, then that's the core of our communication problem.
     
     I don't advocate burning "heretics", only that we don't divert public funds toward their efforts and we educate the public to not fall for, often in harmless ways but sometimes with terrible consequences, people who provide little more than fantastic claims:
     
     astrologers, psychics, so-called health food marketers, homeopaths, mercantilists/protectionists, chiropractors, conspiracy theorists, dowsers, water swirlers, feng shui "experts", faith healers ...
     
     What people do with their own time and money, as long as it doesn't adversely affect their fellow citizen, is up to them.
   • Hallå Kitteh (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Saturday, 01-Jul-2017 00:58:00 UTC Hallå Kitteh

     • Danyl Strype
     @strypey Yes. And those options are what drive knowledge forward.
   • Hallå Kitteh (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Saturday, 01-Jul-2017 01:04:12 UTC Hallå Kitteh

     • Danyl Strype
     @strypey You're missing the fact that astrologers, psychics, so-called health food marketers, homeopaths, chiropractors, dowsers, water swirlers, feng shui "experts" and faith healers are ALL predominantly profit-maximizing corporations.
     
     And they are all acting outside the flawed, yet better than nothing, system for self-correction that mainstream profit-maximizing pharmaceutical corporations are acting within.
     
     The unregulated homeopathic, naturopathic etc industry push out their "natural" remedies as food supplements without any verification that they are working, whereas actual drug companies need to test (yes, in a flawed system) their claims, and are repeatedly corrected when their tests turn out not to hold water in the market.
   • Hallå Kitteh (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Saturday, 01-Jul-2017 01:09:48 UTC Hallå Kitteh

     • Danyl Strype
     @strypey Except that Copernicus had the better model, and they discarded it not because epicycles were predicting some planetary motion better, but because the Pope was invested in geocentrism.
     
     And yet, in the end, the heliocentric model was adapted. Even in spite of people getting burned for it. So cutting funding to outrageous claims without basis doesn't seem so bad after all.
   • Hallå Kitteh (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Saturday, 01-Jul-2017 05:51:02 UTC Hallå Kitteh

     in reply to

     • Danyl Strype
     @strypey So, my bias is that with scientific medicine we are at least trying, but there's lots of improvement to be made to fix incentives, which the evidence-based and science-based medicine movements are pushing for, whereas with non-scientific non-medicine people can do what they like as long as they don't call it medicine. They just go so close to calling it medicine as they possibly can, using alternative terms like "remedies", "natural medicine" and the like.
   • Hallå Kitteh (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Saturday, 01-Jul-2017 06:42:45 UTC Hallå Kitteh

     • Danyl Strype
     @strypey Oh, was that this thread? Right.
     
     So, Marx wasn't a Marxist, he merely wrote the philosophy and ideology on top of which the Marxists defined their agenda. He didn't even argue for Socialism or Communism, he just considered them inevitable through the course of history. Marxists wanted to make them happen, sort of immanentizing the eschaton. Ok. I'm not super interested in Marx's role, but let's see what the tenets of Marxism, the willful putting into motion of the processes Marx predicted would happen anyway, are.
   • Hallå Kitteh (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Saturday, 01-Jul-2017 06:44:02 UTC Hallå Kitteh

     in reply to

     • Danyl Strype
     @strypey
     
     - Social ownership of the means of production
     
     This happened in China, Soviet, Cuba, Venezuela, etc. Failed. China is today neither social not communist, but that's why it still exists. They got out in time.
     
     Yes, socialism is a transitional stage in Marx's analysis. But why did nobody transition out of it in half a century?
   • Hallå Kitteh (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Saturday, 01-Jul-2017 06:45:38 UTC Hallå Kitteh

     in reply to

     • Danyl Strype
     @strypey
     
     - From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs
     
     Full-blown communism never happened, but that's because the path from socialism to communism is the "3. ???" in the Underpants Gnomes profit plan. Revolution places the most violent and ambitious people at the top. The only way societies progress from there is by gradual progress, wearing the power elite down. Which could have been done with the old elite instead, and everybody would be better off.
     
     The UK freed their slaves before the US did, is my favorite example when people mention the American Revolution as one that succeeded in bringing Liberty to mankind.
     
     Under socialism, the bourgeoisie, the army, the party and the state are one and the same. The only way to transition out of it is another violent revolution or collapse. And it won't lead to hugs and anarchy in either direction.
   • Hallå Kitteh (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Saturday, 01-Jul-2017 06:47:16 UTC Hallå Kitteh

     • Danyl Strype
     • Marston Probious
     @marsprobe @strypey
     
     > manages to quadruple per generation anyway
     
     They don't, especially when you feed them. And they don't today, because poverty has fallen and nobody is desperately procreating. When women want to get education, they don't have time to be pregnant all the time.
   • Hallå Kitteh (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Saturday, 01-Jul-2017 06:52:16 UTC Hallå Kitteh

     • Danyl Strype
     @strypey That's fair! I agree with you (gasp).
     
     But all I said was, "If one is anticapitalist, mainstream economics is sufficient for setting a few things straight.".
     
     We probably disagree on what "anticapitalist" means. For me it means disbelief in the only mode of production we have ever succeeded in implementing. No ownership and state ownership have been tried. It works at the tribe or village level, with social bonds. It can't fly us to Mars while at the same time avoiding famine and violent repression.
   • Marston Probious (marsprobe@shitposter.club)'s status on Saturday, 01-Jul-2017 07:42:15 UTC Marston Probious

     in reply to

     • Danyl Strype
     @clacke @strypey >- From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs
     if ones needs are met, what incentive is there to work to the best of your ability?
     Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) repeated this.
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Saturday, 01-Jul-2017 08:31:49 UTC Danyl Strype

     • Danyl Strype
     • Marston Probious
     @marsprobe almost everything on the web, and most free code software, is proof that people don't need monetary incentives to create goods
     Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) repeated this.
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Saturday, 01-Jul-2017 08:36:49 UTC Danyl Strype

     • Marston Probious
     @marsprobe 1) "3rd World" doesn't exist. Many countries that were in that group now have better standards of living than "1st World" ones
     Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) repeated this.
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Saturday, 01-Jul-2017 08:37:44 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • Danyl Strype
     • Marston Probious
     @marsprobe 2) Excepting famines caused by bad weather (eg Ethiopia in the late 90s), poorer countries export more food than they import
     Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) repeated this.
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Saturday, 01-Jul-2017 08:39:08 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • Danyl Strype
     • Marston Probious
     @marsprobe 3) population growth has more to do with access to birth control, pensions, and education for women than how much food they grow
     Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) repeated this.
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Saturday, 01-Jul-2017 08:42:01 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • Danyl Strype
     • Marston Probious
     @marsprobe 4) population growth in most countries is heading towards 0, and demographers predict a stable human population well before 2100
     Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) repeated this.
   • Danyl Strype (strypey@quitter.se)'s status on Saturday, 01-Jul-2017 08:42:52 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • Danyl Strype
     • Marston Probious
     @marsprobe which is just as well, because energy descent (end of fossil fuel use) mean population needs to shrink to be sustainable
     Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) repeated this.
   • Hallå Kitteh (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Sunday, 02-Jul-2017 00:44:06 UTC Hallå Kitteh

     • Danyl Strype
     • Marston Probious
     @marsprobe @strypey Note that the replacement rate is at least 2. If maternal and infant mortality is higher, the replacement rate can be as high as 3. But nobody in that overview is even over 8 children, which would be necessary in order to quadruple even before counting mortality.
     
     But also note that the answer to what "we" are "doing" is in the animation from the same page:
     
     https://social.heldscal.la/url/589807
   • Hallå Kitteh (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Sunday, 02-Jul-2017 00:50:02 UTC Hallå Kitteh

     • Danyl Strype
     @strypey Not on a Stalinist or Maoist scale.
   • Hallå Kitteh (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Sunday, 02-Jul-2017 01:19:12 UTC Hallå Kitteh

     • Danyl Strype
     • Marston Probious
     @marsprobe @strypey Why is it important to secure the existence of our people and a future for white children?
   • Hallå Kitteh (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Monday, 03-Jul-2017 01:18:59 UTC Hallå Kitteh

     • Danyl Strype
     • Marston Probious
     @marsprobe @strypey A little hyperbole could be allowed for, but Niger, the poorest place on the planet, is hardly representative of "the 3rd world", and even they are below 7.
     
     "Africa and the shitty parts of the Middle East" is at 4-6 children and falling.
   • Hallå Kitteh (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Monday, 03-Jul-2017 01:25:36 UTC Hallå Kitteh

     • Danyl Strype
     • Marston Probious
     @marsprobe @strypey What's valuable about western Europeans is the memes, the culture. And they will survive, because they have economic survival value. I don't see any inherent value in pigment levels and lactose tolerance. Either way the argument against diversity within countries to protect diversity in the world is pretty funny.
     
     Also I'm skeptical of the stone age claim. China develops its own CPUs and telecom protocols. India flies to space. If Europeans and their descendants disappeared from the globe, I'm sure the others would be able to handle it just fine.
   • Hallå Kitteh (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Monday, 03-Jul-2017 01:27:24 UTC Hallå Kitteh

     in reply to

     • Danyl Strype
     • Marston Probious
     @marsprobe @strypey So let me take that white man's burden off your shoulders. You don't have to civilize the world, it's ok. You can marry a black girl if you like, your kids will be fine.
   • Hallå Kitteh (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Tuesday, 04-Jul-2017 02:28:34 UTC Hallå Kitteh

     • Danyl Strype
     • Marston Probious
     @marsprobe @strypey There may be noticable differences in certain characteristics, but I still don't see why you worry so much about the future of humanity. If certain parts of humanity are more suitable for leadership and progress, social and sexual selection in a class society will get you your eloi and morlocks.
     
     What if by arguing against mixing races you are postponing the optimal mix? You could have brown people that run fast, lift heavy *and* write sublime poetry! ;-)
   • Hallå Kitteh (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Tuesday, 04-Jul-2017 04:42:25 UTC Hallå Kitteh

     • Danyl Strype
     • Marston Probious
     @marsprobe @strypey
     
     > Without Whites there would be no cars, planes, satellites, computers etc
     
     You keep saying that, but I don't think I'm going to be able to get good evidence for that here.
   • Hallå Kitteh (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Tuesday, 11-Jul-2017 09:02:43 UTC Hallå Kitteh

     in reply to

     • Danyl Strype
     • Marston Probious
     @marsprobe Oops, seems the French President gets inspiration from Nazis on OStatus. ;-)
     
     http://fusion.kinja.com/and-now-french-president-emmanuel-macron-says-some-rac-1796783124
     
     /via https://netzkombinat.su/notice/384882
     
     @strypey
   • Hallå Kitteh (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Tuesday, 11-Jul-2017 10:14:23 UTC Hallå Kitteh

     • Danyl Strype
     • Marston Probious
     @dt @strypey @marsprobe It's ignorant, is what it is. Ignorant, outdated and prejudiced, painting a whole continent with a brush stroke and believing that the 18 million people in Niger are representative of the 1 billion people in Africa.
     
     But racist these days means "denigrating toward some collection of people".
   • Hallå Kitteh (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Friday, 14-Jul-2017 09:45:42 UTC Hallå Kitteh

     • Danyl Strype
     • Marston Probious
     @marsprobe @strypey @dt I will complain about education bias on IQ tests.
     
     But the statement was a factual statement (well, probably hyperbole) about the number of children.
   • Hallå Kitteh (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Saturday, 15-Jul-2017 00:43:14 UTC Hallå Kitteh

     • Danyl Strype
     • Marston Probious
     @marsprobe @strypey @dt
     
     Do poorly ... on IQ tests ... at least partly because of poor education. Because their countries generally suck (yes, I can say that!) for various interwoven reasons that nobody truly understands.
   • Hallå Kitteh (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Saturday, 15-Jul-2017 03:33:39 UTC Hallå Kitteh

     • Danyl Strype
     • The Zeptar Perspective
     • Marston Probious
     @marsprobe @strypey @zep @dt
     
     What China is doing in Africa now is probably going to help everyone more than paternalistic measures ever did, whether it was colonialism, foreign aid or domestic programs in the US.
   • Hallå Kitteh (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Tuesday, 01-Aug-2017 04:34:15 UTC Hallå Kitteh

     • Danyl Strype
     • DT
     @strypey Learn to read obvious sarcasm. @dt doesn't believe in nation-states.
   • Hallå Kitteh (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Wednesday, 02-Aug-2017 14:26:40 UTC Hallå Kitteh

     • Danyl Strype
     • DT
     @strypey @dt Yes. Well. Nobody, literally literally nobody, believes that anyone has jet plane blueprints encoded in their double helix, so.
   • ghostDancer (ghostdancer@quitter.se)'s status on Tuesday, 05-Sep-2017 14:19:58 UTC ghostDancer

     • Danyl Strype
     • DT
     @strypey @dt In Spain the the government is been sabotaging the public health system for years, underfunding it and it says it doesn't work