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1. Annah (maiyannah@community.highlandarrow.com)'s status on Monday, 06-Mar-2017 10:30:31 UTC Annah

   • Verius
   @verius I don't mind programming in Java if its all my code, but the monstrosities that Ive seen others make in it resemble looking upon the eldritch.
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   • Verius (verius@community.highlandarrow.com)'s status on Monday, 06-Mar-2017 10:19:06 UTC Verius
     Oh the joys of having a dependency depend on beta versions of artifacts that have since been taken offline.
     
     Fscking java ecosystem is fscking.
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   • Verius (verius@community.highlandarrow.com)'s status on Monday, 06-Mar-2017 10:32:55 UTC Verius

     in reply to
     @maiyannah Yeah. Like C++ Java requires discipline from the programmer. And like C++ it's all about not going overboard. The main difference is that Java programmers tend to overdo design patterns and copypasting while C++ programmers tend to overdo cleverness and Boost use.
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   • Annah (maiyannah@community.highlandarrow.com)'s status on Monday, 06-Mar-2017 10:35:03 UTC Annah

     in reply to

     • Verius
     @verius Yeah, and while I'm not bundling you in here, a lot of the complaints I hear about C++ and Java from people tend to be of the kind that make me think they come from a place of not having much programming discipline.
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   • Verius (verius@community.highlandarrow.com)'s status on Monday, 06-Mar-2017 10:42:09 UTC Verius

     in reply to
     @maiyannah Oh, I absolutely have too little discipline for C++. The difference is I know it.
     
     But programming discipline is something that most people nowadays don't really learn. Java IDE's and culture make making a mess a perfectly acceptable option. It's languages like C and C++ that teach you to become a better programming. I know my time coding a non-trivial C app at work has made me appreciate how much discipline matters.
     
     And the funny thing is, these days C and C++ are easier than ever. If you program in C you can run valgrind, clang-analyze and the Sanitizer suite and you'll catch a _lot_ of the discipline bugs. You still need discipline but the learning process is much quicker than it used to be.
     
     On the other hand, being forced to debug a spooky action at a distance bug caused by a stack overflow does help etch the need for discipline in your head.
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