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1. Johnny Null (johnnynull@freezepeach.xyz)'s status on Monday, 06-Mar-2017 16:37:17 UTC Johnny Null

   • nds
   @nds I find most philosophy masterbatory at this point.
   • Laya Khan, Serial No. HK7-3 (layakhan@sealion.club)'s status on Thursday, 02-Mar-2017 23:17:46 UTC Laya Khan, Serial No. HK7-3
     Faith. Another word for ignorance.
     Johnny Null and Hallå Kitteh repeated this.
   • nds (nds@dent.smithfam.info)'s status on Saturday, 04-Mar-2017 03:04:16 UTC nds

     in reply to

     • Laya Khan, Serial No. HK7-3
     "non-sequitur" seems to be apt here, actually
     Hallå Kitteh repeated this.
   • Johnny Null (johnnynull@freezepeach.xyz)'s status on Saturday, 04-Mar-2017 03:12:24 UTC Johnny Null

     • nds
     • Laya Khan, Serial No. HK7-3
     @nds The fuck it does. Explain yourself. /cc @layakhan
     Hallå Kitteh repeated this.
   • nds (nds@dent.smithfam.info)'s status on Saturday, 04-Mar-2017 04:33:10 UTC nds

     in reply to
     I just don't see how they can be equated, except as a childish insult. Faith is the belief in something with direct evidence. Ignorance is a lack of knowledge.
     Hallå Kitteh repeated this.
   • Johnny Null (johnnynull@freezepeach.xyz)'s status on Saturday, 04-Mar-2017 10:36:29 UTC Johnny Null

     • nds
     @nds "With direct evidence"?!? Like, I have "faith" in gravity?
     So do tell what your "direct evidence" is for gawd.
   • Johnny Null (johnnynull@freezepeach.xyz)'s status on Saturday, 04-Mar-2017 10:38:38 UTC Johnny Null

     • nds
     @nds Also, from the Oxford dictionary: "Strong belief in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual conviction rather than proof."
   • Dave Lee (has now moved) (thelovebugmoved@micro.thelovebug.org)'s status on Saturday, 04-Mar-2017 10:46:41 UTC Dave Lee (has now moved)

     in reply to

     • nds
     @johnnynull Proof can also be empirical. Many aspects of faith can be based on personal experience as well as spiritual conviction. /cc @nds
   • Johnny Null (johnnynull@freezepeach.xyz)'s status on Saturday, 04-Mar-2017 12:24:21 UTC Johnny Null

     in reply to

     • Dave Lee (has now moved)
     • nds
     @thelovebug Neat word salad. Those experiences need to be (able to be) tested and falsifiable. Additionally at best would be.... @nds
   • Johnny Null (johnnynull@freezepeach.xyz)'s status on Saturday, 04-Mar-2017 12:25:20 UTC Johnny Null

     in reply to

     • Dave Lee (has now moved)
     • nds
     @thelovebug used to create a model. Your assertion leads to assumptions based upon flawed thinking or experience. @nds
   • Johnny Null (johnnynull@freezepeach.xyz)'s status on Saturday, 04-Mar-2017 12:27:33 UTC Johnny Null

     in reply to

     • Dave Lee (has now moved)
     • nds
     @thelovebug On the other hand, people with phantom limb syndrome still have their parts and I'm the Overlord of the Universe. @nds
   • Dave Lee (has now moved) (thelovebugmoved@micro.thelovebug.org)'s status on Saturday, 04-Mar-2017 12:49:45 UTC Dave Lee (has now moved)

     in reply to

     • nds
     @johnnynull How exactly do you falsify someone's personal experience? Such experiences can only be corroborated/denied by person (or persons) who share in that experience. As a naysayer, your argument is as flawed as you believe mine to be. /cc @nds
   • Dave Lee (has now moved) (thelovebugmoved@micro.thelovebug.org)'s status on Saturday, 04-Mar-2017 12:56:49 UTC Dave Lee (has now moved)

     in reply to

     • nds
     @johnnynull Ridicule is unbecoming and undermines your arguments. This dialogue has suddenly become unproductive. /cc @nds
   • Johnny Null (johnnynull@freezepeach.xyz)'s status on Saturday, 04-Mar-2017 13:23:27 UTC Johnny Null

     in reply to

     • Dave Lee (has now moved)
     • nds
     @thelovebug AKA: "I'm super butthurt because I'm losing." @nds
   • Johnny Null (johnnynull@freezepeach.xyz)'s status on Saturday, 04-Mar-2017 13:24:01 UTC Johnny Null

     in reply to

     • Dave Lee (has now moved)
     • nds
     @thelovebug "I don't understand what a model is or how it is constructed or tested." @nds
   • Johnny Null (johnnynull@freezepeach.xyz)'s status on Saturday, 04-Mar-2017 13:29:06 UTC Johnny Null

     in reply to

     • Dave Lee (has now moved)
     @thelovebug Also, you've got a pathetically thin skin. How do you survive in the world?
   • nds (nds@dent.smithfam.info)'s status on Saturday, 04-Mar-2017 14:47:41 UTC nds

     in reply to
     ha, I typo'd. I meant "without direct evidence".
     Hallå Kitteh repeated this.
   • Johnny Null (johnnynull@freezepeach.xyz)'s status on Saturday, 04-Mar-2017 19:25:52 UTC Johnny Null

     • nds
     @nds But faith requires ignorance of the actual properties/processes taking place (see: chariot carrying sun across the sky)
     Hallå Kitteh repeated this.
   • nds (nds@dent.smithfam.info)'s status on Sunday, 05-Mar-2017 20:33:30 UTC nds

     in reply to
     you know I think formulated that way it's not so far off. But interesting that your default conception of "faith" is a god-of-the-gaps style explanatory content, whereas I thought by default of it as the particulars of the Christian faith, like "God exists", and "forgiveness is granted through repentance"
     Hallå Kitteh repeated this.
   • Johnny Null (johnnynull@freezepeach.xyz)'s status on Sunday, 05-Mar-2017 20:36:03 UTC Johnny Null

     • nds
     @nds What makes you think your god is *not* of the gaps?
     Hallå Kitteh likes this.
     Hallå Kitteh repeated this.
   • nds (nds@dent.smithfam.info)'s status on Sunday, 05-Mar-2017 21:15:05 UTC nds

     in reply to
     generally I'd say that very little of Christian theology deals with questions of "oh I wonder how that mysterious physical process works"
     Hallå Kitteh repeated this.
   • Johnny Null (johnnynull@freezepeach.xyz)'s status on Sunday, 05-Mar-2017 21:30:49 UTC Johnny Null

     • nds
     @nds So what is Genesis about?
     Hallå Kitteh likes this.
     Hallå Kitteh repeated this.
   • Johnny Null (johnnynull@freezepeach.xyz)'s status on Sunday, 05-Mar-2017 21:36:48 UTC Johnny Null

     • Daggsy
     @daggsy The hedgehog?
   • Johnny Null (johnnynull@freezepeach.xyz)'s status on Sunday, 05-Mar-2017 21:37:55 UTC Johnny Null

     • nds
     @nds And anyhow, there's proclamations about how to live life b/c gawd runs the show. Because gaps.
   • Johnny Null (johnnynull@freezepeach.xyz)'s status on Sunday, 05-Mar-2017 23:56:52 UTC Johnny Null

     • nds
     @nds Autocorrect issue?
   • Johnny Null (johnnynull@freezepeach.xyz)'s status on Monday, 06-Mar-2017 00:00:14 UTC Johnny Null

     • nds
     @nds That's odd. Generally thought to explain the beginning of the world/solar system/universe. Which is a process. Cute dodge, though.
   • Johnny Null (johnnynull@freezepeach.xyz)'s status on Monday, 06-Mar-2017 10:40:42 UTC Johnny Null

     • nds
     @nds So there's a threshold to what constitutes a god of the gaps, that's odd. And Tower of Babel is the myth of how different languages arose. Which is a process. Which is another gap.
     Your word play is a very amusing attempt at Attributes of the Gaps.
   • Johnny Null (johnnynull@freezepeach.xyz)'s status on Monday, 06-Mar-2017 10:58:29 UTC Johnny Null

     • nds
     @nds First, you misuse the word "understand". By faith you are told (and fall for). By faith people "understand" tarot cards can tell the future. "Understanding" generally requires something with explanatory powers, which the buybull has not.
     Gawd's creation requires faith because gawd nor his powers have been demonstrated. The unseen doesn't require faith. Ask those at The Large Hadron Collider.
     Best explanations DO vary over time. It's called "learning". Otherwise we'd still think that rabbits chew cud.
     "I'll wear that badge"? Being so proud to follow a complete lack of logical consistency,and not having the mental backbone to challenge beliefs, is deplorable. Worthy of ridicule and pity.
   • Johnny Null (johnnynull@freezepeach.xyz)'s status on Monday, 06-Mar-2017 14:58:24 UTC Johnny Null

     • nds
     @nds Couple of ways to interpret that. Could you cite specific examples?
   • Johnny Null (johnnynull@freezepeach.xyz)'s status on Monday, 06-Mar-2017 15:29:04 UTC Johnny Null

     • nds
     @nds But you *can* learn. I don't know how to operate a nuclear reactor, but I can learn how it all works. How does gawd work? Or prayer?
   • Johnny Null (johnnynull@freezepeach.xyz)'s status on Monday, 06-Mar-2017 15:30:17 UTC Johnny Null

     • nds
     @nds But as an (otherwise) rational person, you're aware of different usage for words. "Theory" being a favorite example. /@reality
   • Johnny Null (johnnynull@freezepeach.xyz)'s status on Monday, 06-Mar-2017 15:32:06 UTC Johnny Null

     • nds
     @nds Claims can be verified. (or should be able to). Additionally extraordinary claims yadda yadda yadda.....
   • Johnny Null (johnnynull@freezepeach.xyz)'s status on Monday, 06-Mar-2017 15:32:39 UTC Johnny Null

     • nds
     @nds How do *you* test for your gawd?
   • reality karen teaduck III (reality@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 06-Mar-2017 15:32:52 UTC reality karen teaduck III

     in reply to

     • nds
     @johnnynull @nds buddha said faith only initial step b4 trying practice for yrself & seeing that it worx. maybe a diff paradigm tho?
   • reality karen teaduck III (reality@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 06-Mar-2017 15:41:32 UTC reality karen teaduck III

     in reply to

     • nds
     @johnnynull @nds recently im considering that knowledge on intuition/personal exp wo existing falsification is allowable under empiricism
     Dave Lee (has now moved) likes this.
   • Johnny Null (johnnynull@freezepeach.xyz)'s status on Monday, 06-Mar-2017 15:43:36 UTC Johnny Null

     in reply to

     • reality karen teaduck III
     • nds
     @reality Well yes, Buddha wasn't a big fan of the religions he saw. @nds
   • Johnny Null (johnnynull@freezepeach.xyz)'s status on Monday, 06-Mar-2017 15:46:29 UTC Johnny Null

     in reply to

     • reality karen teaduck III
     • nds
     @reality Well yeah, that's how it works. But again, models should be tested. "That plant made me ill" highly different from... @nds
   • Johnny Null (johnnynull@freezepeach.xyz)'s status on Monday, 06-Mar-2017 15:47:25 UTC Johnny Null

     in reply to

     • reality karen teaduck III
     • nds
     @reality evil space monster jehova always existed and made all the shit (including evil). @nds
   • Johnny Null (johnnynull@freezepeach.xyz)'s status on Monday, 06-Mar-2017 15:48:53 UTC Johnny Null

     in reply to

     • reality karen teaduck III
     @reality Did I mention to you the Bad Buddhist podcast (now dead, sadly). Good stuff!
     reality karen teaduck III likes this.
   • reality karen teaduck III (reality@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 06-Mar-2017 15:50:02 UTC reality karen teaduck III

     in reply to
     @johnnynull sounds relevant to my interests, i'll check it out. cheers
     Johnny Null likes this.
   • Johnny Null (johnnynull@freezepeach.xyz)'s status on Monday, 06-Mar-2017 16:12:54 UTC Johnny Null

     • nds
     @nds Within a scientific framework, with supported models, that can be tested and independently verified.... Not at all the same.
   • Johnny Null (johnnynull@freezepeach.xyz)'s status on Monday, 06-Mar-2017 16:21:49 UTC Johnny Null

     • nds
     @nds That would make me infallible, wouldn't it?
   • Johnny Null (johnnynull@freezepeach.xyz)'s status on Monday, 06-Mar-2017 16:22:19 UTC Johnny Null

     • nds
     @nds Would this not be a fantastic goal?
   • Johnny Null (johnnynull@freezepeach.xyz)'s status on Monday, 06-Mar-2017 16:25:24 UTC Johnny Null

     • nds
     @nds And, of course, you've yet to explain how *you* test for gawd.
   • Johnny Null (johnnynull@freezepeach.xyz)'s status on Monday, 06-Mar-2017 16:32:31 UTC Johnny Null

     • nds
     @nds And you can't see how that can lead you astray? Maybe it's the wrong gawd. There's lots of 'em.
   • Johnny Null (johnnynull@freezepeach.xyz)'s status on Monday, 06-Mar-2017 16:33:23 UTC Johnny Null

     • nds
     @nds Which proves the original assertion that faith is ignorance. Thanks for finally coming around to that.
   • Johnny Null (johnnynull@freezepeach.xyz)'s status on Monday, 06-Mar-2017 16:34:49 UTC Johnny Null

     • nds
     @nds Really? I find being truthful, helpful, and compassionate pretty killer in the "interpersonal relationship" front.
   • Johnny Null (johnnynull@freezepeach.xyz)'s status on Monday, 06-Mar-2017 16:35:15 UTC Johnny Null

     • nds
     @nds Let's not.
   • reality karen teaduck III (reality@quitter.se)'s status on Monday, 06-Mar-2017 16:48:51 UTC reality karen teaduck III

     in reply to

     • nds
     @johnnynull @nds but if only i could sate my hunger by rubbing my belly
   • Johnny Null (johnnynull@freezepeach.xyz)'s status on Monday, 06-Mar-2017 16:55:38 UTC Johnny Null

     in reply to

     • reality karen teaduck III
     • nds
     • Znara Null
     @reality Not saying it's never fun. @znara and I have spent many an hour discussing what constitutes "art". /cc @nds
   • reality karen teaduck III (reality@quitter.se)'s status on Tuesday, 07-Mar-2017 05:07:30 UTC reality karen teaduck III

     in reply to
     @johnnynull as hobbies go one of the most interesting around, and i find it helps me understand the world/people, w/ obvious benefits
   • reality karen teaduck III (reality@quitter.se)'s status on Tuesday, 07-Mar-2017 05:07:55 UTC reality karen teaduck III

     in reply to
     @johnnynull i think it becomes masturbatory if you're just engaging in an echo chamber with it
   • Johnny Null (johnnynull@freezepeach.xyz)'s status on Tuesday, 07-Mar-2017 10:23:54 UTC Johnny Null

     in reply to

     • reality karen teaduck III
     @reality Meh.
   • Johnny Null (johnnynull@freezepeach.xyz)'s status on Tuesday, 07-Mar-2017 10:28:03 UTC Johnny Null

     in reply to

     • reality karen teaduck III
     @reality Disagree. Listening to quibbles about recondite nuance to revisit unhelpful nonsense. Are there three moons if no humans are...
   • Johnny Null (johnnynull@freezepeach.xyz)'s status on Tuesday, 07-Mar-2017 10:28:46 UTC Johnny Null

     in reply to

     • reality karen teaduck III
     @reality There to observe them? Fucking yes there would still be three moons. Go pound sand.
   • reality karen teaduck III (reality@quitter.se)'s status on Tuesday, 07-Mar-2017 11:21:24 UTC reality karen teaduck III

     in reply to
     @johnnynull depends on context i guess. eg infamous argument about whether unicorn *can* exist has actual implications for comp. ontology
   • Johnny Null (johnnynull@freezepeach.xyz)'s status on Tuesday, 07-Mar-2017 11:26:35 UTC Johnny Null

     in reply to

     • reality karen teaduck III
     @reality I find ontology to be a silly relic.
   • reality karen teaduck III (reality@quitter.se)'s status on Tuesday, 07-Mar-2017 11:34:30 UTC reality karen teaduck III

     in reply to
     @johnnynull formal representation of knowledge is a silly relic? well i guess in a modern perspective it's diff
   • reality karen teaduck III (reality@quitter.se)'s status on Tuesday, 07-Mar-2017 11:34:39 UTC reality karen teaduck III

     in reply to
     @johnnynull you might find this paper interesting: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4652617/
   • reality karen teaduck III (reality@quitter.se)'s status on Tuesday, 07-Mar-2017 11:42:59 UTC reality karen teaduck III

     in reply to
     @johnnynull also depends on topic, some questions of philosophy are dumb waste of time just as some questions of science are
   • reality karen teaduck III (reality@quitter.se)'s status on Tuesday, 07-Mar-2017 11:44:51 UTC reality karen teaduck III

     in reply to
     @johnnynull but to eschew philosophy is to eschew meta-study: how we improve field, egs scientific method, empiricism is philosophy
   • Johnny Null (johnnynull@freezepeach.xyz)'s status on Tuesday, 07-Mar-2017 11:55:50 UTC Johnny Null

     in reply to

     • reality karen teaduck III
     @reality What the hell is "meta-study"?
   • Johnny Null (johnnynull@freezepeach.xyz)'s status on Tuesday, 07-Mar-2017 11:58:30 UTC Johnny Null

     in reply to

     • reality karen teaduck III
     @reality Familiar with meta-analysis, assuming that's different.
   • reality karen teaduck III (reality@quitter.se)'s status on Tuesday, 07-Mar-2017 11:59:38 UTC reality karen teaduck III

     in reply to
     @johnnynull study of how you study field, or what constitutes a field, etc. i made up the term though
   • Johnny Null (johnnynull@freezepeach.xyz)'s status on Tuesday, 07-Mar-2017 13:12:14 UTC Johnny Null

     in reply to

     • reality karen teaduck III
     @reality #fishy
   • reality karen teaduck III (reality@quitter.se)'s status on Tuesday, 07-Mar-2017 13:27:57 UTC reality karen teaduck III

     in reply to
     @johnnynull i think it's a valid point, still
   • Johnny Null (johnnynull@freezepeach.xyz)'s status on Tuesday, 07-Mar-2017 13:32:59 UTC Johnny Null

     in reply to

     • reality karen teaduck III
     @reality Sounds like a desperate attempt to remain relevant. I'm now far more firm in my stance. Philosophy has outlived its usefulness.
   • reality karen teaduck III (reality@quitter.se)'s status on Tuesday, 07-Mar-2017 13:34:40 UTC reality karen teaduck III

     in reply to
     @johnnynull i pretty strongly disagree, but i don't feel like this is easily reconcilable. i think i get what you mean, anyway
   • Johnny Null (johnnynull@freezepeach.xyz)'s status on Tuesday, 07-Mar-2017 13:35:42 UTC Johnny Null

     in reply to

     • reality karen teaduck III
     @reality Understood.