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reality karen teaduck III (reality@quitter.se)'s status on Saturday, 11-Feb-2017 19:21:44 UTC reality karen teaduck III @clacke @johnnynull i'm inspired by realisation that proof etc in maths is essentially a creative process; often speak of 'intuition' -
reality karen teaduck III (reality@quitter.se)'s status on Saturday, 11-Feb-2017 18:18:11 UTC reality karen teaduck III the only people more annoying than religious fanatics are atheist fanatics -
Johnny Null (johnnynull@freezepeach.xyz)'s status on Saturday, 11-Feb-2017 18:30:15 UTC Johnny Null @reality I may be biased, but I think they can be equally shitty (depending on the definition of "fanatics"). Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) repeated this. -
reality karen teaduck III (reality@quitter.se)'s status on Saturday, 11-Feb-2017 18:31:58 UTC reality karen teaduck III @johnnynull i think it particularly gets me because they're as deep within ideology as the religious people they're hating on -
reality karen teaduck III (reality@quitter.se)'s status on Saturday, 11-Feb-2017 18:32:12 UTC reality karen teaduck III @johnnynull (and generally less aware of it) -
Johnny Null (johnnynull@freezepeach.xyz)'s status on Saturday, 11-Feb-2017 18:45:01 UTC Johnny Null @reality But if the ideology is "science works and elevates us from goat herder knowledge", isn't that OK? Perhaps an example would help me. Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) repeated this. -
reality karen teaduck III (reality@quitter.se)'s status on Saturday, 11-Feb-2017 18:47:10 UTC reality karen teaduck III @johnnynull i think it is a problem of science exceptionalism. most religious movement would say the same thing about elevation -
reality karen teaduck III (reality@quitter.se)'s status on Saturday, 11-Feb-2017 18:47:47 UTC reality karen teaduck III @johnnynull and with certain individuals it comes with a misunderstanding of science and lack of knowledge wrt its limitations -
reality karen teaduck III (reality@quitter.se)'s status on Saturday, 11-Feb-2017 18:49:04 UTC reality karen teaduck III @johnnynull and i also think 'goat herder knowledge' isn't useless either, ultimately our intuitive experience is what we're living -
reality karen teaduck III (reality@quitter.se)'s status on Saturday, 11-Feb-2017 18:49:43 UTC reality karen teaduck III @johnnynull and the particular mistake people seem to make is that scientific consensus == truth -
reality karen teaduck III (reality@quitter.se)'s status on Saturday, 11-Feb-2017 18:51:08 UTC reality karen teaduck III @johnnynull so then it becomes frustrating because these people who proclaim to be 'elevated' are falling into the exact same traps -
Johnny Null (johnnynull@freezepeach.xyz)'s status on Saturday, 11-Feb-2017 18:54:59 UTC Johnny Null @reality I care not about their claims. It has to cash out in reality. -
Johnny Null (johnnynull@freezepeach.xyz)'s status on Saturday, 11-Feb-2017 18:55:19 UTC Johnny Null @reality Tremendously true. -
reality karen teaduck III (reality@quitter.se)'s status on Saturday, 11-Feb-2017 18:56:14 UTC reality karen teaduck III @johnnynull their claims and what led to them are part of reality, it's not wise to just ignore that, because it speaks to human tendency Johnny Null likes this.Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) repeated this. -
Johnny Null (johnnynull@freezepeach.xyz)'s status on Saturday, 11-Feb-2017 18:57:01 UTC Johnny Null @reality I dislike the "intuitive" in general. It's often used to allow ignorance (anti-vaxxers as an example). Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) repeated this. -
Johnny Null (johnnynull@freezepeach.xyz)'s status on Saturday, 11-Feb-2017 18:57:49 UTC Johnny Null @reality As opposed to "current studies indicate" (or similar). We're in agreement here. Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) repeated this. -
reality karen teaduck III (reality@quitter.se)'s status on Saturday, 11-Feb-2017 18:57:53 UTC reality karen teaduck III @johnnynull how would anti-vaxxers use the word to build an argument? (can't recall one) -
Johnny Null (johnnynull@freezepeach.xyz)'s status on Saturday, 11-Feb-2017 18:59:15 UTC Johnny Null @reality The "intuitive" should be backed (or be able to be backed) by scientific inquiry. See: Reiki, chiropractors, psychics, etc -
Johnny Null (johnnynull@freezepeach.xyz)'s status on Saturday, 11-Feb-2017 18:59:48 UTC Johnny Null @reality Well said. Totally agree. -
Johnny Null (johnnynull@freezepeach.xyz)'s status on Saturday, 11-Feb-2017 19:00:47 UTC Johnny Null @reality The refrain of "Moms just 'know'" still lingers in that sphere. reality karen teaduck III likes this. -
Johnny Null (johnnynull@freezepeach.xyz)'s status on Saturday, 11-Feb-2017 19:03:23 UTC Johnny Null @reality It's also been used to build sympathy for conspiracy theories. Build a narrative and offer a Wookie Defense. -
reality karen teaduck III (reality@quitter.se)'s status on Saturday, 11-Feb-2017 19:04:41 UTC reality karen teaduck III @johnnynull ah of course, i have to think about this a bit more -
reality karen teaduck III (reality@quitter.se)'s status on Saturday, 11-Feb-2017 19:12:00 UTC reality karen teaduck III @johnnynull my initial thought is that there's a distinction between taking intuitive experience into acct and 'just knowing' arg etc -
reality karen teaduck III (reality@quitter.se)'s status on Saturday, 11-Feb-2017 19:12:55 UTC reality karen teaduck III @johnnynull so the real issue there is probably the beast relativism has grown into -
Johnny Null (johnnynull@freezepeach.xyz)'s status on Saturday, 11-Feb-2017 19:14:21 UTC Johnny Null @reality Yes, I think this is a point we agree on. Intuitive knowledge is a data point. But the value of it should be able to be sussed out. reality karen teaduck III likes this. -
Johnny Null (johnnynull@freezepeach.xyz)'s status on Saturday, 11-Feb-2017 19:14:54 UTC Johnny Null @reality Never tried to spell "sussed". #growth -
reality karen teaduck III (reality@quitter.se)'s status on Saturday, 11-Feb-2017 19:16:26 UTC reality karen teaduck III @johnnynull where value is the sort of platonic 'truth'/reality kinda thing? -
reality karen teaduck III (reality@quitter.se)'s status on Saturday, 11-Feb-2017 19:20:00 UTC reality karen teaduck III @clacke @johnnynull hmm, i'd say that kind of reasoning is just logical failure/false equivalency, rather than being 'intuitive' -
Johnny Null (johnnynull@freezepeach.xyz)'s status on Saturday, 11-Feb-2017 19:20:19 UTC Johnny Null @reality Yes, "cashing out" I believe is the term. Does it work? Why? Why not? Mechanism? What brought people to believe it would? -
reality karen teaduck III (reality@quitter.se)'s status on Saturday, 11-Feb-2017 19:20:45 UTC reality karen teaduck III @clacke @johnnynull to me that kind of argument is intuitively dumb. i suppose your intuition is built from your knowledge too -
Johnny Null (johnnynull@freezepeach.xyz)'s status on Saturday, 11-Feb-2017 19:21:54 UTC Johnny Null @reality I'd quip that "intuitive" does not give a damn for (or ever heard of) "equivalency". /cc @clacke -
Johnny Null (johnnynull@freezepeach.xyz)'s status on Saturday, 11-Feb-2017 19:23:06 UTC Johnny Null @reality "Intuition" does not study logical fallacies. (Thus F religion). /cc @clacke reality karen teaduck III likes this. -
reality karen teaduck III (reality@quitter.se)'s status on Saturday, 11-Feb-2017 19:24:10 UTC reality karen teaduck III @johnnynull hmm, and then i suppose the whole reason we have common logical fallacies is actually because they're 'intuitive' -
Johnny Null (johnnynull@freezepeach.xyz)'s status on Saturday, 11-Feb-2017 19:24:31 UTC Johnny Null @reality Sure, I think we can agree it's a broad term. There's intuition when fighting. Some good, some bad, some can be improved. @clacke -
reality karen teaduck III (reality@quitter.se)'s status on Saturday, 11-Feb-2017 19:28:07 UTC reality karen teaduck III @johnnynull i think that intuition is the same kind of intuition we've been talking about. it can be helpful, but must temper w logic -
Johnny Null (johnnynull@freezepeach.xyz)'s status on Saturday, 11-Feb-2017 19:29:49 UTC Johnny Null @reality Yes, and the scientific method. (quantum mechanics and so on) -
reality karen teaduck III (reality@quitter.se)'s status on Saturday, 11-Feb-2017 19:30:48 UTC reality karen teaduck III @johnnynull i also don't think our current instance of scientific method is the solution to everything wrt knowledge -
reality karen teaduck III (reality@quitter.se)'s status on Saturday, 11-Feb-2017 19:31:14 UTC reality karen teaduck III @johnnynull people often forget that w scientific method we don't /actually/ prove anything we only can disprove -
reality karen teaduck III (reality@quitter.se)'s status on Saturday, 11-Feb-2017 19:31:33 UTC reality karen teaduck III @johnnynull so our 'truth' or laws are actually just statistical laws, in a sense -
reality karen teaduck III (reality@quitter.se)'s status on Saturday, 11-Feb-2017 19:32:15 UTC reality karen teaduck III @johnnynull i'm also interested in possible limitations of causality, which some quantum theories support -
reality karen teaduck III (reality@quitter.se)'s status on Saturday, 11-Feb-2017 19:32:43 UTC reality karen teaduck III @johnnynull (though my understanding of anything quantum is incredibly basic, i'm mostly drawing from jung etc) -
Johnny Null (johnnynull@freezepeach.xyz)'s status on Saturday, 11-Feb-2017 19:36:05 UTC Johnny Null @reality I agree, but it's the single best tool we've got. And our methods improve. As opposed to religious ideology. -
Johnny Null (johnnynull@freezepeach.xyz)'s status on Saturday, 11-Feb-2017 19:37:12 UTC Johnny Null @reality Yes, it's an excellent example of intuition completely shitting the bed. -
reality karen teaduck III (reality@quitter.se)'s status on Saturday, 11-Feb-2017 19:37:38 UTC reality karen teaduck III @johnnynull i think philosophy is probably the best tool we have. i suppose it depends on the job -
reality karen teaduck III (reality@quitter.se)'s status on Saturday, 11-Feb-2017 19:41:30 UTC reality karen teaduck III @johnnynull indeed! i think it also speaks to how there are almost different levels of truth (considering physics) -
Johnny Null (johnnynull@freezepeach.xyz)'s status on Saturday, 11-Feb-2017 20:20:21 UTC Johnny Null @reality Sure. Until we get a unified field theory (or its like).
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