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1. Christine Lemmer-Webber (cwebber@octodon.social)'s status on Friday, 03-May-2019 16:02:20 UTC Christine Lemmer-Webber

   • Andrew (bookseller era)

   @ajroach42 or don't have heroes, have people who sometimes do useful things and sometimes fail, and be willing to accept and recognize both :)

   • Christine Lemmer-Webber (cwebber@octodon.social)'s status on Friday, 03-May-2019 16:02:56 UTC Christine Lemmer-Webber

     in reply to

     • Andrew (bookseller era)

     @ajroach42 to rephrase, the problem might not be the people on the pedestals as much as the pedestals themselves

   • Christine Lemmer-Webber (cwebber@octodon.social)'s status on Friday, 03-May-2019 16:03:16 UTC Christine Lemmer-Webber

     in reply to

     • Andrew (bookseller era)

     @ajroach42 to rephrase, the fundamental problem might not be the people on the pedestals as much as the pedestals themselves

   • switching.social (switchingsocial@mastodon.at)'s status on Saturday, 04-May-2019 13:01:40 UTC switching.social

     in reply to

     • Andrew (bookseller era)

     @cwebber @ajroach42

     It's a *huuuuuge* topic but yes, people and groups are complex and fallible and contradictory and hypocritical. The more we get to know someone, the more we see these bad sides alongside the good stuff.

     It's maybe an unwise idea to see people or organisations as heroes, because it will lead to either disappointment or denial.

     A better thing to put on a pedestal is a particular principle or invention, as it's more clear what it is and why you appreciate it.

     Christine Lemmer-Webber repeated this.
   • Christine Lemmer-Webber (cwebber@octodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 04-May-2019 14:36:04 UTC Christine Lemmer-Webber

     in reply to

     • Andrew (bookseller era)
     • switching.social

     @switchingsocial @ajroach42 Yes I agree!

     And by the way... that doesn't mean that we should address when someone or some org is wrong! Quite the contrary! It's just that we should expect everyone to be wrong sometimes, and if they *do* demonstrate good faith (if they don't, take note for the future, because someone with a history of not demonstrating good faith will often continue to not do so), give them some space to become right.

   • Christine Lemmer-Webber (cwebber@octodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 04-May-2019 14:36:26 UTC Christine Lemmer-Webber

     in reply to

     • Andrew (bookseller era)
     • switching.social

     @switchingsocial @ajroach42 Yes I agree!

     And by the way... that doesn't mean that we shouldn't address when someone or some org is wrong! Quite the contrary! It's just that we should expect everyone to be wrong sometimes, and if they *do* demonstrate good faith (if they don't, take note for the future, because someone with a history of not demonstrating good faith will often continue to not do so), give them some space to become right.

   • Christine Lemmer-Webber (cwebber@octodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 04-May-2019 14:38:39 UTC Christine Lemmer-Webber

     in reply to

     • Andrew (bookseller era)
     • switching.social

     @switchingsocial @ajroach42 And btw I do think there's a difference between bad behavior in eg obvious racism or obvious sexism vs some policy decisions that may not have been well considered.